In this article, I’m going to teach you how to use kratom for opiate withdrawal. When it comes to withdrawal remedies, kratom is one of the best-kept secrets there is. I went through opiate withdrawal many times over the span of a few years, and I never once heard of kratom.
It wasn’t until I cleaned up and became a Substance Abuse Counselor at an Opiate Treatment Program that I finally learned about kratom for opiate withdrawal from a patient of mine that had used it to get off methadone in the past.
I started researching it, and the things I learned blew my mind.
Here was a beautiful tree (member of the coffee family) that was not regulated by the Drug Enforcement Agency in the United States (making it legal), which had mu-opioid agonist qualities (like morphine), that could without a doubt help anyone ease their opiate withdrawal symptoms naturally.
How Kratom Works for Opiate Withdrawal
This evergreen tree native to Southeast Asia is not an opiate.
Kratom, simply put, is an opioid agonist. This is just a fancy term meaning that it mimics the effects of opioid drugs such as heroin, morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone etc.
You’ve probably heard of the medications Suboxone, Subutex, and methadone. These are also opioid agonists, and they tend to eliminate opiate withdrawal symptoms and cravings especially well.
The only problem is that many individuals are now stuck on these powerful medications, due to them being a lot harder to come off than one might think.
Mitragynine, the major alkaloid in kratom, is a partial opioid agonist producing similar effects to morphine.
An interesting minor alkaloid of kratom, 7-hyrdoxymitragynine, has been reported to be more potent than morphine. Both kratom alkaloids activate supraspinal mu- and delta- opioid receptors, which is the main reason the plant alleviates withdrawal symptoms so well.
The patient of mine that told me about kratom said it helped her come off methadone by reducing 90% of her withdrawal symptoms.
This piqued my interest, to say the least. After studying the plant on my own, I felt comfortable recommending it to my patients for coming off opiates and opiate replacement medications such as methadone and Suboxone.
My Experience with Kratom
To be quite honest, I was pretty bummed out that I never got to use kratom for opiate withdrawal. However, after two years of being fascinated with the plant, I finally gained the courage to try it from a strictly investigative perspective.
I obviously wasn’t using kratom to ease any opiate withdrawal symptoms, nor was I intending to get high or ease any physical pain.
I simply wanted to feel the effects of the plant before I wrote an article on kratom for opiate withdrawal.
I had been nervous about trying it for some time due to its potential for addiction and withdrawal symptoms. Fortunately, there is a store called Bountiful Herbs six blocks from my house that specializes in kratom.
I spoke with a very knowledgeable employee by the name of Alanna Donovan about different strains, dosages, and whether or not she thought I would get addicted to it.
After our conversation, I decided to purchase some Maeng Da kratom, which is one of the more powerful strains available.
I figured “go big or go home right?” I ended up really enjoying the buzz, which felt a lot like taking hydrocodone or oxycodone, though not exactly.
That was five months ago, and since then I’ve probably taken kratom around a dozen times.
I’ve experimented with different stains and dosages, and even different potentiators (something that increases the effects), in hopes of finding the perfect protocol for coming off opiates.
What I’ve come up with for you is an easy, step-by-step program on how to use kratom for opiate withdrawal.
I’m going to teach you what the best kratom for opiate withdrawal is, and you’ll also learn how much kratom to take for opiate withdrawal.
By following the plan I’ve created, you’ll be using a powerful, natural plant that binds to the same receptor sites in your brain that drugs like morphine and heroin bind to.
The result?
If you’re like my patient on methadone……a 90% reduction of withdrawal symptoms.
Best Kratom for Opiate Withdrawal
Classic Red Bali from TopExtracts.com is, in my opinion, the best kratom for opiate withdrawal. Also known as Red Indo kratom, this strain has powerful painkilling and sedating qualities, which makes it more desirable for opiate withdrawal than some of the stimulating types of kratom.
All strains of kratom work for opiate withdrawal, but the Red Vein types are preferable because of their ability to relieve symptoms to a greater degree. After trying over a dozen different kratom companies, Top Extracts wins my vote for the purest and strongest at the best price. Click here to read my review article on the best kratom for opiate withdrawal.
How Much Kratom to Take for Opiate Withdrawal
The main alkaloid in kratom, mitragynine, is an opioid agonist, which means that it sticks inside opioid receptors in your brain.
These receptors significantly influence your mood and pain levels. Since mitragynine fills these receptor sites, it can produce euphoria and pain relief in the same way that morphine can, though it’s not the same as a morphine high.
The major difference between kratom and opiates is that kratom prefers delta- opioid receptors first, while morphine and other opioid drugs bind to the mu- opioid receptors.
However, if you take a large enough dose, kratom is able to more powerfully activate mu- opioid receptors.
The difference between kratom’s affinity for either delta- or mu- receptors depending on the dosage is most likely why the effects go from stimulating to sedating. At lower dosages of about 3-7 grams, kratom has more stimulating and mood-enhancing effects. At around 8 grams and up, it actually has more sedating and painkilling effects.
After experimenting with kratom dosages and strains, I’ve found that taking 9-10 grams of powder is the perfect amount to stimulate the mu- opioid receptors.
Using 9-10 grams of Classic Red Bali provided me with euphoria and sedation that was remarkably similar to an opiate high.
Furthermore, this dosage made me “nod out” hardcore while I was relaxing on the couch watching a movie, which was my determining factor for coming to the conclusion that this was the best dosage for treating opiate withdrawal symptoms.
How to Use Kratom for Opiate Withdrawal: Your 4-Step Success Plan
The following plan can be used for getting off heroin, hydrocodone, oxycodone, Suboxone, methadone, or any other opioid. If you adhere to the steps I’ve created, you should be able to eliminate 70% to 90% of your opiate withdrawal symptoms.
Being physiologically dependent upon opiates sucks. The fear of withdrawal can keep you stuck in your addiction for years and years. I want you to have a mild withdrawal, and most importantly, I want you to STAY CLEAN FOR LIFE!
- You don’t have to be a slave to the drug anymore!
- You can end your addiction!
- You can use these steps to have a very mild opiate withdrawal!
- You can stay clean and live the life of your dreams!
- All of the courage, determination, love, and faith you need are within you now!
Visualize your life after getting off opiates. Imagine yourself looking and feeling healthy. Picture yourself waking up in the morning and feeling awesome without having to take drugs.
How does that feel? How bad do you want this? I know you can do it.
You can decide right here and now that you are going to follow this withdrawal plan and take back control of your life.
“It is in the moment of decisions that your destiny is shaped.” – Tony Robbins
Step 1: Go Shopping
My strategic plan for using kratom for opiate withdrawal consists of obtaining the following items:
- 8 ounces of Top Extracts Classic Red Bali
- 20 grapefruits
- A cheap digital scale
- A 30-day supply of an Opiate Withdrawal Supplement
The eight ounces of kratom should be more than enough to get you through your opiate withdrawal. The grapefruits on the shopping list are going to be used to make fresh juice to mix with the kratom powder.
Grapefruit juice is a great “potentiator”, which means that it increases the effects of kratom. You’re also going to need an accurate scale that weighs to the gram. This is very important because using 9-10 grams per dose is essential for stimulating the mu- opioid receptors, which are the ones that will relieve your withdrawal symptoms the most.
Note: Start out with 3-5 grams for your first time. This might be all you need. Everyone is biochemically unique, so different dosages and strains will work better for different people. The white vein kratom strains are more stimulating and energy producing, and the green veins are somewhere in the middle of white and red.
Feel free to try different strains, and you can even mix them together (quite nice effects if done correctly). Also, the grapefruit juice stretches the kratom further, but it might even make it too strong for you. Start off with low doses without grapefruit juice then see what your body needs.
Opiate Withdrawal Formula contains a powerful blend of amino acids, herbs, vitamins, minerals and other nutrients that can help ease your symptoms in the following ways:
- Enhances Mood
- Eases stomach discomfort
- Increases natural energy
- Calms anxiety
- Restores dopamine production quickly
- Reverses depression
- Reverses insomnia and helps you get more restorative sleep
Step 2: Stop taking Opiates
There are are a few different ways to go about this next step. One is to come off opiates “cold-turkey”. I don’t ever recommend this method.
It results in the most severe withdrawal symptoms, and if you can avoid it I strongly encourage you to follow one of the next two strategies.
Another method is to “taper” your opiates, which means to systemically decrease the amount of narcotics you take over a period of time. Tapering is better than coming off cold-turkey because it is much less of a shock to your body.
By spending a few weeks or more slowly lowering your daily opiate intake, it allows your body to gradually adjust to the changes, which will result in a reduction of withdrawal symptoms.
The following plan I’ve outlined is based on a cold-turkey withdrawal.
Here are some important tips to remember before you plan your withdrawal:
- Every individual is biochemically unique (so what works for one person may not work for another).
- Depending on the severity of your opiate addiction, you may need to raise or lower your kratom intake (people with an extremely severe addiction might need a dosage of 16-25 grams).
- Always use the least amount of kratom possible to alleviate your withdrawal symptoms.
- Discontinue kratom after 7-14 days so you don’t become physiologically dependent upon it (which could lead to more withdrawal symptoms).
- Kratom can become addictive, so use with caution.
- Listen to your body and adjust dose as necessary.
- Always take kratom on an empty stomach as this helps with absorption.
Step 3: Use an Opiate Withdrawal Supplement and Kratom for Opiate Withdrawal
It’s VERY IMPORTANT that you start taking your Opiate Withdrawal Supplement a minimum of seven days before you come off opiates. Doing so will enable the nutrients to start priming your body for the impending withdrawal. If you wait until the last minute it will still help a lot, but the benefits from starting early are too good to pass up.
Days 1-4: Take Opiate Withdrawal Supplement in the morning. Cut a grapefruit and squeeze the juice into a cup.
Weigh out 9-10 grams of kratom powder and add it to the grapefruit juice. Stir it up good with a spoon, or put it in a blender on low for a few seconds (I prefer this method because it mixes it better). Drink up! Wait an hour before eating breakfast.
You can take 3 more servings of kratom and grapefruit juice throughout the day to minimize withdrawal symptoms, just make sure you always take it on an empty stomach (at least 3 hours after meals).
Before bed on an empty stomach, take the Opiate Withdrawal Supplement.
Days 5-7: Continue to take the Opiate Withdrawal Supplement, and reduce your kratom intake to only two 9-10 gram servings per day instead of four.
The hardest part of the withdrawal is usually over by the beginning of Day 5, and this will also help prevent you from going through mild kratom withdrawal.
Days 8-30: Discontinue kratom. Continue to take the Opiate Withdrawal Supplement. It will help restore your brain chemistry to its pre-opiate addiction state, and it will also promote a positive mood, increased energy, calming of the nerves, enhanced digestion and appetite, and better sleep.
Step 4: Stay Clean!
After using kratom for opiate withdrawal successfully, the final step is to stay clean and build a strong recovery.
I believe the most important part of recovery is correcting the biochemical imbalances that opiate abuse either caused or exacerbated.
Without first addressing this physical aspect of addiction, counseling and other types of psychological treatment can only lead to moderate success at best.
I encourage you to follow these guidelines to heal your body and mind:
- Eat at least 20-30 grams of protein 2-3 times per day to boost endorphins and other mood-enhancing chemicals in the brain (organic, free-range and wild-caught are best).
- Consume at least half of your body weight in ounces of water per day.
- Eat plenty of fresh fruits, vegetables, legumes, and healthy fats.
- Eat high-quality protein foods like chicken, fish, turkey, beef and cottage cheese.
- Eliminate or reduce refined carbohydrates, processed foods, sugar, nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine.
- Focus mostly on organic whole foods.
- Exercise on a regular basis to help your body produce endorphins (natural morphine).
- If you can afford it, I also highly recommend taking this awesome supplement, because the benefits are just too good to pass up.
- Check out my coaching program and packages to see if it’s a great resource for you to use.
—>Click here to get 15% off the best kratom for opiate withdrawal>>
Click here now to view my best home detox program.
If you have any questions on how to use kratom for opiate withdrawal, please don’t hesitate to post it in the comment box below.
Wonderful article! Thanks for sharing this. I haven’t thought that kratom can be that effective in opiate withdrawal. I read about kratom that which is effective in treating sleeping disorders, and anxiety, and helps to unwind and forget about the challenges of the day.
Hi Matt,
I discovered your website and used the valuable information here to use Kratom (and supplements) to end a 17+ year Vicodin addiction. I am very nervous about Kratom but decided it was a necessary evil to free myself. It has been a godsend. I am 5 1/2 days into detox and tried cutting back on Kratom but symptoms are still too severe without it. My question is, how long will I experience the acute withdrawal symptoms from the Vicodin addiction and how do I know the withdrawal symptoms are related to opiates and not to Kratom?
I am toughing it out, but didn’t expect acute symptoms to last this long.
Thank you for your incredible website. I can’t tell you how much it has helped me and it’s clear you are helping many people through their struggles.
Best regards,
Wen
I just ordered the classic Red Bali from Top Extrcts. Can you please help explain how to taper off oxy blues? I need help please
Hi Matt and community of warriors! Breaking the chains.
I have a question about kratom. I am using it for withdrawal and starting on day three. The kratom has helped immensely but have a dull pain in my left mid to upper abdomen that seems to come on after taking the kratom. I am taking around 8 grams. I am wondering if this could caused by the withdrawal or could this be my pancreas and could the kratom have anything to do with it?
I am wondering if anyone has had that similar pain during withdrawal and while using kratom and if you have any ideas, Matt? Whatever answers are appropriate. I know we cannot diagnose.
Thank you anyone who reads! Bless you all.
Yes omg every time ! I haven’t been able to work out if it’s constipation from Kratom or cramps from withdrawal or both. It didn’t use to happen to me When taking Kratom recreationally (maybe every once and a while), but for withdrawal it happens like clockwork. I’ve found that super-finely ground brands (experience brand in particular) doesn’t have this side effect. I have Crohn’s disease and I think the Kratom irritates my colon/causes constipation causing this pain. Still not sure! Best of luck
I just wanted to say thank you all for your helpful information. I have used much of your advice with the red Keaton and I No
Longer need the use of Norco. After 10years of a doctors so called need for injury I landed up addicted like many millions of others out there. Thank you Matt Flinch for caring enough. Blessings to you!!!!
You’re welcome. Glad it helped and congrats to you for bettering your life! -Matt
How do you know when you have been stabilized on the Kratom enough to start the taper??
I just wanted to say, I have red maeng da powder and I’m going through withdrawals from gabapentin. I couldn’t even force myself to drink it… until…..I found this right here! Grapefruit juice would have never come to my mind. But I can actually drink it (quickly lol) now to help me. I’m 5 yrs clean from a huge morphine i.v. and heroin addiction and about after a yr clean I started seeing a Dr for my back which is real screwed up with 5 herniated discs which is how I was getting morphine for yrs. These gaba withdrawals are not too far in difference. Just a tad milder. The red maeng da tea is helping alot. So thank you for sharing this. Blessed be.
Hey, thank you so much for this! I now have hope for a life again. I am just starting and my Kratom bottle says 1-2 scoops, each is a gram, yet you say 8-9. I just want to make sure 8-9 is okay, as the bottle says not to exceed 4 in a day.
Thanks!
Hey, I took 9 grams 3x a day for the first 4 days and felt great. Then knocked it down to 2x a day. Then after further reading I got worried about taking such a high amount so now I take 4grams 2x a day. It’s been about 13 days so far and I feel if I don’t take the kratom I still get hot skin, anxiety, minor aches and discomfort. 8-9 is the way to go at first because it hits the mu receptors affecting the body pain. But I just don’t know how to come off it
Here is a video I did for this situation: How To Get Off Kratom Without Withdrawal (Like a Boss)
Hi,
I was just wondering how would you suggest to taper off of heroin? I’m having a really tough time. I’m scared to go to a doctor because I think they may take my son away and I’m pretty much a wreck over this. I actually tried to take a full 8 mg suboxone today that I got from a friend and it didnt do anything for me and I was in full withdrawals even though I hadnt used since the morning before, so there was at least a 16 hrs gap in between using and taking the sub but because I was withdrawing I had to take more heroin to make it stop. I really dont understand it and it makes me scared to even use sub’s. I want to try the Kratom but im getting nervous this won’t work for me either and its becoming a vicious cycle for me at this point. Do you think you could email me personally? There’s just so many comments its hard for me to find my own and I’d rather be connected with you one on one through text or email. If you would kindly leave your email or somehow see mine from me leaving it on the site.
Please help 🙁
Ok, day 8. Woke up w/ withdrawal for the first time since I jumped onto Kratom from Subs eight days ago. I did everything to a T. But I’m definitely dependent on the Kratom.
10mg twice a day. Got a quick Kratom taper schedule you could suggest? Please?
This happens to some people, and for these cases, all you have to do is stay on kratom a little longer and taper off. Maybe continue taking enough to feel good for another week, then do a 3-4 week taper, then use withdrawal remedies once you transition off. I’ve written a free ebook on this method. I’ll post a link to it for you to check out, as it will show you exactly what to do for your current situation. Here it is:
The Kratom Playbook For Opiate Recovery>>
Hi Matt I don’t have the powder form I have the capsules of gold maegna da how many should I take daily to help with my opioid withdrawals?
Im in the same boat. How many Caps should i take per day? And do I have to wait until Im real sick before starting Kratom?
Also with suboxone you don’t really start to withdraw bad until day #7 so it most likely wasn’t withdraw from kratom as much as it was withdraw from the subs. I’m going to start trying this to detox of my buprenorphine soon! Thank you so much for the tips!
Day #7 no way by day 7 physical wds. Are over sub withdrawal is worse at day 3-5. In my opinion and experience (20-years addiction) so I’m well versed in sub detox,and it depends I. How long you are in it if your on 2-mg for 5-years vs 8mg for 6-months the detox will be worse for the 5-year person,but sub withdrawal is a piece of cake vs methadone or any other opiate at least for me. Good luck to you all this Disease is uncureable but is treatable! And it is a disease that all doctors need to admit rather than pass the buck or totally ignore you which happens 90% of the time shame on the current medical system!! Shame!shame!shame!
10 mg is like a 1/3 capsule. That’s not enough to hook a mouse.
Im on day 60 of days free of suboxone with the assistance of kratom. I got on sub over a decade ago to kick the mother of all Oxy Contin habits only to fall headfirst into the “life sentence” that is suboxone. This is the longest ive ever been able to abstain for sub, by weeks, and its only cause of kratom.
Hi, I’m in same boat. Would you mind letting me know how you got off of the kratom?
Hey Matt.
I’m about to make the jump from Subs to your suggested Kratom method. Everything is ready to go, but although I have no known allergies to anything, I’m currently taking a medication for Pericarditis that says “No grapefruit or grapefruit juice while taking this medication. Can I use another kind of fruit, or mix the Kratom w/ anything else. Thank you (understatement of the year) Matt for everything.
Hi Dan,
Congrats to you for going for it!! And yes, you can use lemon juice, orange juice, turmeric, black seed oil, or flaxseed oil. Additionally, you can just skip a potentiator as well. But if you can drink orange juice, that one is really good.
Any other questions and I’m here for you. 🙂
Matt!!!
It’s day 4. I can honestly say that I haven’t felt any withdrawal symptoms. I’m following the Kratom method except I switched the grapefruit juice w/ Arnold Palmer’s. Six weeks ago I was on 12mg of Suboxone, and this is the bloody last thing I thought I’d be talking about at that point in life.
You had a special offer discount on your coarse making it possible for me to afford it. “Thank God I took your course” just doesn’t say it! I know, it’s day 4. I too balked at messages from others in their first week of withdrawal. I am looking forward to seeing this through, I want it, whatever comes next, I will embrace! The one symptom I’ve endured, is from the fact that I want to blow chunks whenever I smell Kratom, or Elimidrol. I feel nauseous a lot and if I didn’t vape a small amount of Indica, there’s no friggin way I’d be able to keep drinking either, at all. I must add, I never use canibas, I did as a kid but it just makes me hide under tables usually now. I know for a fact it helps with nausea, so I started vaping a small amount a week in advance to get the paranoia under control.
So the reason people comment on here a few days in withdrawal, is 1, we are all grateful Matt, and pretty much just want to thank you for making what I know is a living hell, a proud encouraged hopeful state of mind. And 2, I challenge you who balk at this comment. I have experience in this insanity. This ain’t my first rodeo. I quit 240mg oxy a day when I was young and bulletproof. I quit Methadone 8 years later at home as well.
This time im ending about a 4 year run of everything followed by 2 1/2 years of Suboxone. I tapered from 12mg to 1.5mg in six weeks, and made the jump a week before schedule, because this coarse has me exited to get on with life!!! Whoever you are, if I can do this, you can too!!!
I respect PAWS, and am quite familiar w/ it’s effects. I am scared, I won’t lie, but if following the recommendations has got me here, symptom free, then I have to believe that the recommended supplements, diet and exercise I’m practicing to help heal my brain are going to get me through PAWS as well.
I will end my ramble with this. This ain’t some “I found the Lord” crap. I’m just Joe Bloe saying get on with your life. Matt’s got a plethora of methods to get off Opiates/Opioids almost painless, if not painlessly. Pick one, and get on with the rest of your life. I dare you. Thank you Matt! I look forward to posting with more time off Subs, thank you for getting me this far Brother.
This is wonderful!!! And I just responded to your comment that came after this as well. I promise that if you check out that free ebook, it will teach you step-by-step exactly how to get the result that you want. 🙂 You are doing amazing… And I thank you so much for the kind words and feedback!
I am scared to come off buorenorphine.
The pharmacies do not want to deal with you. They will make every excuse in the world not to fill your prescription on the day it’s due. I’m sick of playing this game but I am scared. Yesterday or last night I received word from my pharmacy that they were no longer going to be filling this medication for any of their clients/ patients.
They are not going to carry it anymore so I had to switch pharmacies. So the rhythm is completely gone. The new pharmacy will not fill it until three days after my regular pharmacy was supposed to fill it. So I know I will go into withdrawal. Withdrawal symptoms usually start with me after about 24 hours of stopping buorenorphine.
I have terrible Ménière’s disease and have just gotten over Covid and have been having vertigo episodes almost on a daily basis so I am really terrified to go into withdrawal because I know it will exacerbate the vertigo and the nausea which cover along with the Ménière’s disease and vertigo. But I’m also gonna have worsened nausea and dizziness and vertigo from the withdrawal too. Is there anyway that I can take this to get me through the next four days so that way I can fashion a plan and prepare to get off of this medication. I can’t do it anymore and I can’t stand it anymore. I got off of it for my children in 2005.
It was also a death bed promised to my father that I would get myself into detox. I did a medical detox, in the hospital, because I have epilepsy.
The Ménière’s came later.
But now I’m stuck on this. And at the end of every month, I start panicking that I am going to run out of medication. That’s a sure sign of addiction. In the 90s I had some very severe headaches due to an aneurysm. I had surgery, I was over prescribed medication.
By the end I was prescribed 150 Demerol tablets and 150 Percocet per month. Of course I got hooked .
So I did the subutwx.
It’s 15 years later. Still on.
I don’t drink.
I don’t use anything except thc vape for and nausea.
I also take diazepam for Ménière’s disease and vertigo as well as my epilepsy. I am wondering if I can use this to get me through till when the pharmacy will fill my prescription. They are making me wait till day 32. They can’t count. And this is another reason why I want out.
I’m sick of the anxiety every end of month.
And I already have terrible anxiety. There are days when I can’t even leave my house. And I have no challenge for your post. Because everything you said is exactly right. I’m scared of whatever this PAWS is. I don’t know much about it.
I’m scared of the way I already feel. I have four tablets left. I’m on 2.5 mg tablets of 8 mgs. a day. I know it’s a high dose.
And now I have 4left for next 4 days .
Can kratum help interim ?? Until I can afford to formulate a plan with my doc to get off.
My dog and I discussed it just the other day. But he didn’t know that this would happen with my pharmacies. And I didn’t tell him because I didn’t know that I would have to switch pharmacies either. The new Pharmacy ; They tend to be very judge mental about Suboxone and Subutex.
So they won’t
Fill til day 32. I’m scared and screwed.
Do you have to be in withdrawal for a certain amount of time before taking Kratom like you do with subs? Or can u take it before the 24hour wait time?
It would be a dream to find this answer in at least one location on the Internet. It is literally the only reason i haven’t switched. I don’t know how long to wait or not to wait…I’ve messaged but I believe it’s considered a form of medical advice and no one wants the liability if you OD-ing and dying with high levels of other narcotic(s) still in your system. As that is a potential risk with Kratom.
That being said…It would be great for some kind of idea. On how long best to wait when jumping from Methadone to Kratom. I have been searching for nearly a year for this answer. And can’t find ANYTHING. :/
No you do not!! You can take it at anytime! I mix it with my oxycodone sometimes to not have to take so much! (I have a severe condition that does require real oxycodone). But I felt like I was beginning to take too much so switched to Kratom to bring my tolerance down. Also, USE ORANGE JUICE WHEN DEINKING KRATOM! You will not taste it at all! And for whoever ask ABOUT CAPSULES, EACH CAPSULE HAS .5 GRAMS IN IT, so you will have to take 20 capsules for 10 grams! If you dont have a scale, start off at 2-3 TEASPOONS, then work up by a half of a teaspoon until you get comfortable. The worst that can happen if you take too much is you throw up! Any question please contact me!
Hey Matt iv been reading some your post on I fill like I’ve got hope I’ve drop from 120mg methadone to 40 mg about 5 months I’ve heard a lot about krayton iv read about some family members I really like to no the truth about it I went dry turkey on hydros felt fair after couple weeks I went 5 days without methadone I prayed for death till me best of your ability how to start taking krayton please I’m 57 have no life I don’t want to change drugs but I need help how would you do this
Thanks for explaining that kratom works for opiate withdrawals because it mimics their effects. My cousin is struggling with an addiction to opiates. I’ll give her a call and suggest she try using kratom to help.
It’s my pleasure, Amy. I’m wishing your friend the best of luck.
Hello Matt and Everyone,
My fiancé and I really enjoyed this article and we are going to order kratom and start this journey together. However, we are stuck and confused on when we should start. We are both on 80 milligrams of Methadone. Should we taper down to a certain milligram then start the kratom? We do not want to have to take the kratom for months at a time and possibly become addicted to that as well. Please, any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Hey Samantha & Lloyd,
I tapered down to 4 mgs, then went back up to 5mgs of methadone from 140mg in 1 year. Did you ever get the answer you were seeking? Just checking in, as I am starting my Kratom from methadone switch tomorrow morning. ♡Jordan
If I forget to check back, please let me know how it goes…..I’m starting my third week of methadone and tomorrow jumping up to 40mgs… two days after I started they put me at 40 and I started napoing so I freaked out and said, “Get me off this stuff!!!!” before I had even detoxed fully off H. I’ve been puking sick as a dog because they bumped me down to 35, then 30 and I’ve been sick since starting…. due to various conditions, my thyroid doesn’t respond well to methadone, suboxone or Fentanyl so I’m eager to get off…. I’ve been using H though since I stay sick…I’m down to only once a week
Hi I’m new to Kratom, I’ve been in recovery for about 4yrs. I’m doing MAT medical assist. I started with the pills, for a few years, then the pills went to op’s, so heroin was the next step really Fetenyal. So I wanted to stop the Methadone, for the last month I’ve been reading about Kratom, I was so afraid of the Methadone withdrawal, So I started two weeks before I stopped the Methadone on the Kratom. It worked. It’s been 8 days with no Methadone. I feel great I bought a few different types of Kratom.
A fast leaf for energy, and a slow type to sleep. I mix it up. I don’t make drinks, People say if you mix it up with like OJ, or an acid. The question is am I going to have a withdrawal the same as if I were on Methadone. Or do I need to wean off the Kratom also? Am I trading one source to another?
Confused. What would anyone do I dont want to go back to the liquid hand cuffs
Hey Matt,
Thank you so much for this. I was on suboxone for over 10 years and jumped from 2mg to kratom. I had finally had enough. If it weren’t for this piece you you wrote, I would’ve been lost in the woods. I have followed it to the T and will continue to do so! I’m now 12 days with no suboxone! Is it a walk in the park? Hell no! However, it’s made it to where I can go to work now, and I feel my life coming back more each day I continue the fight. Thank you Matt.
I just failed my 1st attempt to get off fentynal. Day 4 I just could take it anymore…patch back on. Because of this article you sent I’m gonna getsome of this asap!!!!!!!!
After trying most kratom extracts, I can say with confidence that regular powder beats the other types. Tolerance and effects is an advantage with regular powder.
So just a quick update..Day 10 came down with a horrible cold no Kratom just cold medicine. I’m going to bed early with the help of some Nyquil. I’m still hanging in Kratom has been a huge help but I think I’m going to stop using it and use the supplements and exercise to get me well. Don’t get me wrong the Kratom was great I would have never made it this far without it but I don’t want to become dependent on it either. I’ll post another update when I’m feeling better. If your struggling to get off opiates Kratom can really help you give it a try I was skeptical too but wow this stuff is really great.
Day 18… yes I’m counting days but I’m trying not to focus so much on them. I feel pretty good physically it’s the low energy/motivation that is getting to me. I’ve just started exercising and have been trying to keep busy. I have been listening to music and comedy laughter is great for helping my mood. I guess I just wanted to let people know I’m still hanging in there. To the people trying to get off Suboxone Kratom is a great tool I just wouldn’t stay on it too long I used it for ten days and then tapered my dose for 3 days and I had no withdrawal from it. Kratom was a live-saver I had to work during withdrawal and I never would have been able to do that without Kratom. I will post another update soon. Take Care…
My name is Amanda. I have been on Suboxone for 4 years now for the past two years I have been at 4 mg a day would it be safe to just quit and jump to kratom or should I wean myself down? I am so scared of getting off but I’ve been wanting to get off Suboxone for so long now I hate it. I’ve also heard of people lately overdosing on Kratom so that also scares me.I am a very anxious person but finding this website and seeing all the people you have helped gave me so much hope
Honestly Amanda I’d say yes I don’t know much about suboxone but I’ve been on anywhere from 100 to 160 milligrams of oxy almost every single day for four years if it wasn’t oxy it was norcos to ease the withdraw and ten days ago I just gave up for my children jumped right into a medicine man white mengda 4 grams every three to four hours and besides some stomach discomfort probably from being hungry and feeling some pain from work I’ve been fine. Ya i haven’t done so much it’s got me the euphoria and energized but definitely has diminished withdrawals by allot.
Amanda I was on Suboxone and jumped to white Maeng Da Kratom once I was down to .5 mg of Suboxone a day. I would follow Matts tapering schedule and then jump. It was really effective. John I have not had withdrawals with the white Maeng Da either. Glad it’s working so well for you too!
I was on Suboxone for 5 years was splitting a script that a friend got I paid hald her costs for the visit and the script. This worked well for 6 years. I decided to strt tapering my dose I was at 4mg and she got busted with a dirty urine. I had no choice to detox from 4mg of suboxone. I read this article about 4 months ago and bought some Kratom. It was a life saver I had to work during withdrawl and I have no idea how I would have done it without Kratom. I’m on day 7 and have cut my dose of Kratom from 5 grams 3 times a day to 3 grams twice a day. I’m going to taper over the next week and be done.
I have started to attend meetings and exercise on a regular basis. I have purchased some supplements. Great article Matt you have helped people more than you. I will check back later and let you know how I’m doing.
Hi Misty. Congrats, I’m so proud of you!!! I loved reading your post just now!!! Made my day, and I’m so happy that you’re doing so well. Puts a smile on my face and hits me in the heart because there is no better feeling knowing that something I’ve created has helped someone improve their life. Thus, I really appreciate you taking the time to write in. And I look forward to your next update!!!
Hi, im delilah ive been on opiates since the age of 13…i know. I weined myself off oxys to hydros then down dosed on hydros till last night. I hit 10mgs and it killed me. I had a 5mg in the am and waiting till i was vomiting and literally killing myself to redose. Ended up in the er by 8 last night. They did nothing. So my bf did his research and found kratom is a miracle plant for ppl like me. He found a place and brought it back to me and shoved 2gs in me while i was whimpering in the shower. I took an adivan and i slept!!! I woke up today not anxious one bit till about an hr ago. I slowly kept going up gs till i reached my point. 10gs im happy. No withdrawal symptoms besides my legs are a bit on comfortable…im crying with joy. From 13yrs old ive been fightiing this. I thought id die an addict. This is day 1 with no other meds, just kratom. Im so happy.
Thank you!!!
Hey Delilah I’m glad to hear kratom is working well for you. I’ve been a daily opiate user for the last 15 years until 36 days ago when I made the jump off so I’ve been where you are. Keep it up and stay strong through this process.
Hi Matt,
I have read through lots of the comments and I just purchased a kilo of Red Bali but I want to see if you think I should continue tapering off my methadone or what would be the best avenue. I was addicted to OxyContin ten years ago. Went to a methadone clinic prescribed 80mg a day and then tapered off 1 mg per week, got down to 1 mg and lost it couldn’t handle it after I left. Now I’m prescribed 7 10mg tablets of methadone a day. I have lots of issues with the 60-65 mg a day range I feel awful any time but once I get through it I can keep coming down with no issues. It seems to be harder on the pills since I can’t do a milligram at a time but I want to be done with this medication once and for all. Is it possible to just stop the methadone now at 70 mg a day? I’ve also heard people say they take away a pill and will do a dose of kratom, but you seem to be against doing them at the same time, so should I jump to kratom now or would you recommend coming down a little further? I have enough medication for the next 6 weeks, my dr quit, and I would just rather be done than try and find a new one. Also, should I just follow the plan you have outlined above? Thanks so much this is far the best website I have found to answer questions!
I’d like to share this with you. My wife came off 75mg methadone using Kratom and at 6 weeks from a total stop she was using Kratom at half the dose every two days and a month later methadone free. I had Hep-c for 35 years and my liver won’t handle Kratom. I get very ill but this is about you. If you can handle Kratom then go for it. I’m jealous because I’ve been on methadone frequently since 1972. This time it’s an 18 year run so if your body can take it- go for it! You’ll be glad you did. I wish you the best👍🏻
Thanks for sharing Irv. If you don’t mind my asking what does it do if you take kratom? I ask since you mentioned because of hep c you could not take it and was just curious. Your answer could also help others reading this in case they to have liver trouble as well. Thank you.
Sorry 4 replying here I really have a question but I couldn’t find where to go to ask the question. I’ve been on 4 mg Suboxone for approximately two years. I can’t quit Suboxone completely right now because it help supplement my income if you know what I mean. As soon as I find a job I can tell my doctor I want to get off of it in the meantime I was wondering if I didn’t take suboxone for about 2 or 3 days would I feel Kratom and then I have to get a UA tested my doctor is it going to hurt me to take an 8mg Suboxone the day of the test will I get sick.
As a suboxone user of 10 years, do you think it’s better to taper as low as I can go before switching to kratom or to just make the jump? I’m down to 1 mg daily, but I never took super high doses for any length of time. I can see the benefits of both. Just feeling like the longer I’m on this poison, the longer the acute and post acute withdrawals will last, but at the same time I don’t want to totally shock my poor brain and body. Also, I went a little crazy and ordered both the elimidrol and the calm support, but I probably shouldn’t take them both, right? Also have some dlpa and kyani’s triangle coming. My biggest concern is the drawn out PAWS. They make me feel like I’m coming off a really bad acid trip and it’s why I went back to the suboxone after being off for 8 months. I thought I had gone crazy. Also thinking about hiring you… I’m blessed to be financially stable and I’m beyond ready for this chapter of my life to be over once and for all! Thanks in advance! There’s so much great information here. God bless!
If it were me I would make the switch over right now at 1 mg. Then take kratom daily on a dosage that stabilizes you for about 3 weeks, then taper off the kratom over a couple of weeks while using Elimidrol and the Triangle. Then save the Calm Support and DLPA to use together for after the Elimidrol runs out (it has DLPA in it). That should really assist with the PAWS.
This is perfect! Thank you!
My pleasure!!!!
Hi, I apologize for replying on a previous comment but I could not find a comment box other than this. I have had an opioid addiction for about 10 yrs and then tried loperamide in larger doses for withdrawal. It definitely helped but now of course I have a newer, strange addiction to the loperamide. As in 160 2mg pills total each day! The withdrawal is horrible and similar to opioid wds. Do you think a well controlled similar kratom program could help?
Obviously I’m not Mat, but I think you should definitely give kratom a try. The dose of loperaminde you’re taking is so dangerous. It is cardiotoxic in that dose range. People die from taking that much. You will probably need a pretty high dose of kratom at first, but the kratom is so much safer! I wish you well!
Shawn I don’t know much about loperamadine I’m guessing anything that high is not good. But I stated early for the past four years I’ve been anywhere from 100 to 160 grams daily mostly 160 depending on money situation and I jumped off one day after buying some white vein mengda said screw it if worse comes to worse I’ll just go get more but ten days later and besides some stomach discomfort mainly from not having much appetite and actually being able to feel pain from work for the first time in four years it’s been a miracle I’m telling you… put that on my children that I’ve made this decision for my next step is worrying about the psychological withdrawal and motivation which hopefully after a week or two the kratom will enhance more once I’m not on such a fog for being so high all the time. I was doing five or tens as soon as I got up four hours later the same four hours later the same four hours later the same then bed … four years and it also has me very much into believing I can do this and I don’t need painkillers for my real pain and has me wanting to exercise again and just more happy then pill happy which there is a difference.
I don’t know how I got here. Anyway I took my last norco last night. After 18 years. And I also take Xanax. I’m down to .5mg. My plan is to quit norco now. Just got my Kratum kit. And then I will do a taper on the Xanax. I have to work. No time off. That’s is why I thing the norco first. And then the Xanax taper. Does this sound reasonable?
Gina, I’m not Matt but I’ve
Been an opiate/anything addict for 51 years. Your plan sounds great too me and I would suggest getting your doctor to help you with Xanax. That’s a different animal but anything is doable. A long, long time ago I kicked reds.(Seconal) it took a Hospital but I did it and never looked back. My point is I’m not sure with Xanax but many downers of the biodiazapene family have many different effects.
Good luck!
Hey Gina, yes that sounds like a good plan imo. The Xanax should help with sleep while going through norco withdrawal which is how I would use it if it were me. Stay strong and hang in there. Take care.
Hi Matt sorry this is the only way i see to leave a comment. I have been addicted to opiates for about 15 years now and im ready tk be off of them. Ive been ready for several years but havent been able to get the help i need. Anyway i just heard about Kratom and decided this is what im going to do to get my life back. I started today with a mix of bali and maeng da i took 7 capsules total aboit 15 mins ago. I take anywhere from 500-1000 mg a day of hydrocodone depending on my pain level. Do you think 7 capsules is ok? How many should i take??
Hey Lori I hope you are doing well. I am in a similar situation at 1mg of suboxone about to make the jump to kratom for a short period then jumping off of kratom as well. I have only been on suboxone for just over 4 years (this time) but am just as nervous about PAWS as you are but looking for the positive side of this as staying positive can actually benefit during this transition. I hope you will continue to post here during your switch as it will definitely help others here going through this as well. Hope you have a good day today.
It’s been 2 weeks and 3 days. Everything is going well. The worst of the acute stuff is over and it was very manageable with kratom use. I haven’t even missed a single day of work. The biggest hurdle at the moment is RLS and insomnia. I must say, though, that I have also quit remeron, cymbalta, and ciggarettes so I’m sure that’s not helping. And I know I still have to get through PAWS, but I will make it. You can do this, Jeff! I’m a big baby, so if I can do it, so can you!
PS: Matt, please don’t post my last name. Thank you for providing such a wonderful resource!
Thank you for posting Lori. I will take my last suboxone April 19 and switch to kratom. I am both excited and nervous about getting off suboxone after 4 years of us. Would you share your dosage of kratom and what strain/s that worked for you during the first week? Thank you again and I hope you continue doing well.
Jeff, I bought a ridiculous amount of a ton of varieties. I’ve only used a few and they have been mostly red ones. I’ve used red borneo, malay, dark elephant, chocolate to name a few. I haven’t been able to tell much of a difference between any of them, but I have heard that won’t happen until the suboxone truly leaves your system. I’m not taking much because I’m terrified of dependency.. on the worst days I was taking 2 tsp every 8 hours, which was enough to get me through, but it was still hard. At that dose, I was getting nauseous, so I started taking smaller amounts more frequently, like 1 tsp (about 3.2 grams by my scale) every 4 to 6 hours. I think your dose will be dependent on where you purchase from also. I have met some who have taken a LOT more than that. There are some closed, but mostly secret facebook groups full of people who have used kratom to get off subs. Not sure if there’s a way to add you, but let me know if you’re interested, maybe we can figure something out.
Thanks for sharing Lori. I believe I have enough but can get more if needed. I have a few different strains as well but the majority is red Bali and white Borneo from top extracts as Matt suggests here. I have been down this road many times unfortunately but it’s been 4 years since I’ve had any withdrawals so not looking forward to that. I have never came off suboxone after such a long period so this part is new and I’ve never really taken kratom (aside from teying it while still on auboxone). My plan is to take kratom for two months total to hopefully get past the PAWS of suboxone and taper during the last few weeks before making that jump. I know this could cause withdrawals from the kratom but am more concerned about the PAWS from suboxone that can last several months than I am the kratom withdrawals. I read this theory in getting off suboxone online written by a sub doc that’s says this has the best success rate for his patients. There are many ways that can work so I’m certainly not trying to change anyone else’s plans just sharing my personal plan. I do have some gabapentin to use if needed but would prefer not to take if it’s not needed. My biggest concern is I may have a job interview during the first or second week after making the jump and am concerned kratom will not be strong enough to get through that and be able to impress. I can always just say I’m sick I guess. I may be able to stall it another week or so but that could also have negative consequences I’m sure. Sorry to keep running on. I hope you continue doing well and are able to get to through this with ease. 🙂
I’ve been on 4 mg subs for like 4 years. If I stop cold turkey will I be able to feel the kratom on day 3?
I am so glad i found this website. I take oxys for different reasons. I take it for pain but I have nerve damage in my intestines and no sphincter control of the bowels. I take 4 oxys a day to stop horrible diarrhea and it works. If i have more pain from all the spine surgeries i have had, i take more pain reliever. It is easy for me to build a tolerance so i taper myself regularly because thats just how i feel. I was intrigued by the articles on kratom and so i bought some and tried it. It does the same job as the oxys as far as stopping the diarrhea. the end result is i can use so much less oxy if i am not feeling intense pain. What a wonderful product and thank you for putting it on your website with directions.
Wonderful to read this, Barbara!!! Glad kratom is working so well for you, and it’s my pleasure to provide directions on this site. 🙂
Hi everyone, Just wanted to give a follow up to my original post from January 28, 2018. I am currently totally off of methadone (15 days now) and on Matt’s subutex taper plan on the every 3rd day dosing at .25 mg as I only ever took approximately .5mg. I am doing wonderful, I have to say, this has been the easiest most pleasant detoxes I have ever experienced. The kratom worked Exactly as described. I take 1 tablespoon 2- 3 times a day (Only on non-subutex dosing days.) I know it works because at first when I started the sub taper, I would wake up in the morning, pupils enlarged, hurting, you guys know the deal. Kratom works in about 10 minutes for me, I give it a 10 for pain relief and another 10 for sense of well being and pep. I am at the point now where I am waking up in minimal pain and bare withdrawal symptoms. In 2 days I dose my subutex down to .25mg, Honestly though, I think I am just going to jump off at this point. I am actually feeling WORSE on the days I take the subutex and better on the kratom. I ordered 8 oz as Matt suggested in kratom for withdrawal article. I will start to taper from the kratom when I feel ready. Just wanted to say Thank You again to Matt (YOUR AWESOME!) and to Top Extracts for a Great Product and fast shipping!! I am on my road back to recovery and health, thanks to this article and this wonderful plant!!!
edit to above:. I am currently totally off of methadone (15 days now) and on Matt’s subutex taper plan on the every 3rd day dosing at .5 mg as I only ever took approximately .5mg. (1st paragraph not .25mg but .5) my bad. sorry.
Great post! You are doing it!!! Thanks for the kind words and for writing about your journey here. It’s so awesome to follow! And glad you’re loving Top Extracts Kratom. They are the best!
Thanks for everything Matt. I jumped off of the subutex on the 9th. I’m done with it, it was making me feel just plain bad. I am still on the 3 tablespoons (2 sometimes) a day of the kratom. I am about out of the original 8 oz I bought of the red horn. I am so happy with these results, have ordered 4 oz of the classic red and 4 oz of super green, I will try the mixture and then taper off of that. I have had at least 5-8 hours of sleep EVERY night since I started detoxing, this has been the easiest detox I have ever had and God willing, the LAST. This article meant everything to me. Again Thank You.
My pleasure Haily! And I do believe this will be the LAST time you ever have to do this. Then FREEDOM!!! 🙂
Is it possible that subutex makes you feel bad because buprenorphine “kicks off” other opiates and/or agonists?
I have been maintaining on 0.5 to 1mg Suboxone for a long time. Going to try to substitute kratom alternate days
hey Matt my situation is a little different than any of that which I have read I am addicted to heroin at my height a gram or more per day I have with the use of methadone gotten myself down to about 2 bags per day without withdrawal. I am beginning to withdraw from both heroin and methadone now I bought kratom a while back in capsules . 5gs per capsule. Do you think it will help someone with addiction as severe as mine?
Does kratok.cause precipitated withdrawal if used after opiates?
No precipitated withdrawal from using kratom after opiates. The only 2 drugs that cause precipitated opioid withdrawal are buprenorphine and naloxone. Buprenorphine has a high binding affinity but low intrinsic value at the mu opioid receptors. So if a person takes a buprenorphine formulation while they still have opioids in their system, the buprenorphine will displace the current opioid out of the receptor sites and not activate the receptor to the same strength, thus causing a buprenorphine-precipitated withdrawal syndrome.
Naloxone can also cause precipitated withdrawal, but only if it’s used intravenously. Taken sublingually it has virtually no effect at all. It’s a common misconception that it’s the naloxone in Suboxone that causes precipitated withdrawal. But it’s a scientific fact that it’s not the naloxone, but the buprenorphine in Suboxone that causes the precipitated withdrawal.
Thus, the only time a person would ever have to worry about causing an accidental precipitated withdrawal is when using a buprenorphine formulation such as Suboxone, Subutex, Zubsolv, or any one of the newer ones out.
I’m Wow people, this guy is for real! I was waiting for him to say the precipitated WD is from the naloxone. This has to be a big miss conception. The correct answer is the affinity (see answer). So this confirms to me he doesn’t talk out of his ass. I just ordered some of the kratom he recommended and see how this methadone jump goes. I’ll keep you all posted. Hey Matt, do you still like vitamin c? Thought on using it with Kratom? Or maybe for coming off of it?
What type of Kratom is best to use? There are so many
This article is a little old but hopefully you still get this! I’m planning on using Kratom to come off subsolv (another brand of suboxone) and I just had a question. It’s been hard to find exactly how many capsules I should take, as I bought my Kratom in capsule form. The bottle says serving size is 5 capsules which equals 2500mg. Understanding that 1000 mg makes 1 gram, I’m still kind of unsure how many capsules I should take. I bought the Premium Bali Kratom as I read that was the best strain to use. Any further advice or help would be appreciated! I’m so looking forward to getting off this crap, Suboxone is not the “miracle cure” everyone seems to think it is and I want to be off of it after 5 years.
I would start off with 6 capsules on an empty stomach, then wait an hour. If it’s not enough, you can use more. My guess is it will take anywhere from 10-18 capsules 3x a day to help you feel better. But you’ll need to start off with the low dose then work your way up to your own individual “sweet spot.” Everyone is different, so it will just take a bit of experimenting and then you’ll have it down. Good for you for taking this HUGE step towards a life free of opioid dependence!
Hello! I like many others have become chemically dependent on an opioid like drug. I have fibromyalgia and have been taking Tramadol 100mg twice a day for about a year. I ran out early a month ago and the withdrawal was absolutely awful! I am on my way to running out again and I have a family to take care of and a life to live! I am very sensitive to any kind of withdrawal from medication, including Zoloft and Paxil ect. My question is, I take Zoloft and gabapentin, could I take Kratom along with these? The symptoms that are the worse for me are nausea, vomiting diarrhea and hot/cold sweats. I can handle everything else! What stain is best for these withdrawal symptoms? I’m so done being on these and being so dependent on them! Any help
Would be so appreciative! Thank you so much!
Kratom and gabapentin can lead to a synergistic effect, but so can gabapentin and tramadol or any other opioid drug, natural or synthetic. And I’ve known many people to take kratom with an SSRI and have no issues with it. I know with CELEXA and REMERON these and kratom can have a slight potentiation effect as well. I’ve also seen a LOT of people take kratom for fibromyalgia with great benefits. Any strain of kratom works for opioid withdrawal symptoms. The red vein kratoms are the most sedating and painkilling. And the white strains are the most mood-enhancing and mentally stimulating. Green is in-between the two. You can even mix strains together which many people do. I did this as well and liked to mix red and white.
Can I use maaeeng da(I know I can’t spell!) Instead of bali? That’s the main one I have around me and I want the energy more than sedation at this point so I can hopefully miss little to no work. Thanks in advance!
Of course. Any strain of kratom works for opiate withdrawal. Maeng da is great if that is the one that works the best for what you want it to do.
John,
If tapering off hydrocodone for pain management, is it okay to start kratom or once you start kratom should you no longer be taking hydrocodone at all?
You should either take hydrocodone or kratom, but not both together. Most people are easily able to switch from hydrocodone to kratom, then taper off the kratom using supplements, nutrition, and exercise.
How long do you have to wait after a 5mg dose of norco to take your first dose of kratom?
As soon as you don’t feel the effects of the Norco anymore. I would wait 4-5 hours and that should be fine. Kratom is not like Suboxone so you don’t have to worry about precipitated withdrawal.
Matt, I’ve been taking 50 mg of Oxycodone for 5 months straight. Can i get on your recomended Kratom detox for Opiates and be done in 8 days with both Kratom and the pills? Is this possible with minimal withdrawal?
I’m on 40 my oxycodone. It’s been 18 months. Should I just switch to kratom next dose?
Hi!
I have been using methadone for one and a half year and the highest doses were 30-60 mg per day. I did withdrawal before and usually I feel ok after 3 weeks but then I start using again and I really don’t know why. My current situation is that I am of methadone again and this is day 10 free. My symtoms now are extreme fatique and depression, but somedays feels a little bit better than others. My last dose was approximately 20-30 mg per day.
I am afraid of falling back into using again and have ordered kratom and lyrica to help me. My plan is to use one sort in maybe three days and then take one day without and then use the other substance in three days untill 21 Days have gone buy and then quit and only take one or the other if I feel afraid I will go back to the methadone otherwise. Does that sound like a good plan or should I skip lyrica all together. The problem is that I am so afraid to prolong or create new withdrawals if I use one of this drugs to many days in a row.
Regards
Peter
Peter, that sounds like an awesome plan! Love it! Also, I want you to read my article on natural supplements and other tips for feeling better after you get off methadone. Along with your current strategy, if you add some of these into the mix you should feel better fast and NEVER go back on methadone.
Here is the article I want you to check out: https://opiateaddictionsupport.com/post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome-opiates-opiate-paws-symptoms-timeline/
And here is my article on How To Use Lyrica For Opiate Withdrawal in case anyone that reads your comment wants to learn more: https://opiateaddictionsupport.com/lyrica-for-opiate-withdrawal-pregabalin-does-help/
Will I get precipitated withdrawals if I stop 4 mg suboxone cold turkey and take kratom on the 3rd day off subs
No and you can take it before then too. You can take kratom right away when you get off Suboxone.
Trisha, once suboxone (Bupe) is in your system (you’ve been taking it for a period of time) you can no longer get precipitated withdrawal. It’s when you have an opioid in you system and no suboxone in you then take suboxone, that will cause precipitated withdrawals. I have been through it coming off methadone and it is no fun but have never experienced it once on suboxone even if taking opioids with it. I am certainly not encouraging anyone to do this combo (suboxone will block most opioids effects anyway) but passing along info. Hope this helps.
Well, I ran across this article a couple of days ago. I have come off of high doses of methadone, oxycontin etc.. on several occasions. I must say the methadone withdrawal I went through in 2012 was brutal, just plain evil. I went into protracted abstinence and wasn’t able to even function for almost 2 weeks, after that I shook and had terrible anxiety for almost 6 months. Any sane person would never put themselves through what I went through a second time…hence I am an addict and as hard as I tried, in 2017 I started taking some of my brothers methadone and subutex again after I developed VERY painful heel bone spurs. What started out innocently eventually became another dependence. However, this time I never exceeded 5 mg of methadone a day and just a small sliver of subutex. Moving on….I am currently a vaper, quit smoking in 2014, My friend at the vape shop told me about Kratom and he gave me a bottle of kratom focus 6gm in a 10 ml bottle to just try as well as a few tablespoons of the powder (which strain is unknown) as he only even had it because a friend had given it to him for some pain issues he was experiencing. The friend who gave it to him however DID use it to get off of methadone and swore by it’s effectiveness. Well now to get to the point….My brother got locked up 4 days ago which now means I will now have to withdraw. I am down to my last few slivers of subutex, off the methadone completely for 3 days now. Yesterday I ordered 8 ounces of the red horn kratom, they had a live chat option on the great website in this article and the rep I spoke to said I should have my kratom in 2-3 days. So I will have at plenty of kratom when I run out of subs. I also am prescribed 6 mg klonopin daily, which I hardly ever take as I only take 1 2mg tab with 30 mg restoril at bedtime. I will now likely use the full amount I am prescribed when I start the detox. I also will be taking gabapentin. I am prescribed 1800 mg/day which I have only ever taken 600mg a day, I will begin to take full dosage of this now also. I am a bit of a hoarder, even with medication, I have always only taken my prescribed dosages or less, however dependence is still the same. So I will write another article on my detox experience when I have started the kratom and will share my experience with you all. I will say now lastly that I am NOT afraid this time, I have heard that the fear of the whole withdrawal thing can actually potentiate the severity of the detox. Well we shall see, I want to say Thank You to Matt for writing this article. It is broken down perfectly, easy to read and understand. Matt, Thank You for caring and will keep you updated on my recovery process. T
Can’t wait to read your update! Thanks for posting this here and for adding value to the comment section of this article. You ROCK!!! 🙂
Hi there,
I have been on methadone for a year and I’m ready to be done ASAP. I have been up as high as 50mg but now down to 15mg/day. My plan was to wean down to 1mg/day and then substitute with Kratom. My question is, do you think I could jump off earlier than that, like at 10mg and only take a few days off work? Also, how long do you think I would need Kratom after to get everything out of my system and only be withdrawing from Kratom?
Hi Elizabeth,
I’m sure you could jump off 15 mg of methadone per day with kratom alone and that should be enough. Then, you could take enough kratom to make you feel balanced for the next 4 weeks so you can get off the methadone and just be dependent on the less-powerful natural plant medicine. Then you could use supplements to help you taper off kratom which is typically much easier on your body than tapering off methadone.
Thank you for your reply! It’s very encouraging that you think jumping off at 15mg is doable – I am scared but it’s worth a try. I have continued to taper down and actually had a few days where I only took 10mg last week, and used Kratom to offset the symptoms. I have about a week’s supply left, so I’ll give it a shot and post back with my results. Thank you again for taking the time to reply!
My pleasure, Elizabeth! I look forward to reading your results! Thanks for posting them here! 🙂
I jumped from 50mgs with kratom calm support and xanax and withdrawals were tolerable
Great news, Steve! Calm Support and Xanax are great!
Dear Matt,
I had been taking Morphine for 1 year, switched to 24 mg of Suboxone, which I took for 4 years. Calm Support and ESPECIALLY Kratom are helping me a lot after I quit Suboxone completely. I’ve been taking 30 grams of Kratom for 2 months, but whenever I fail to do so, I immediately start having the evil, most unpleasant withdrawal symptoms. I am afraid to get dependant on Kratom, but I can’t go on without it. Suboxone is a devil’s medicine.
How severe is Kratom withdrawal when I stop taking it?
Thank you so much in advance!
Glad those are working so well for you Cristiano! The ticket if that is happening is to taper slowly off kratom. Or, you can use opioid withdrawal remedies such as powerful medications to help with the symptoms if you were to stop taking kratom cold-turkey. Kratom withdrawal is nothing as bad as Suboxone withdrawal. For most people it’s just fatigue and irritation, for others they have virtually no symptoms, and others seem to have worse symptoms, but that is usually people that are taking high doses of strong kratom extract.
Hi my name is Daniel. I’ve been on pain management for a few years , then it turned into dependency! From reading the comments, maybe what I’m taking isn’t as bad. But when I don’t have them, I get so many withdrawal symptoms. Night sweats, headaches, irritable, diarrhea, stomach cramps and the list goes on. I currently take 3 Tylenol #4 w/codiene a day. I think that’s 60mg each (180/day) I don’t feel like myself anymore. I lost my sense of humor. I can’t stand it. I want to be free Of this evil ugly addiction. if I start taking Kratom now, can I drop to only 1 Tylenol or even none within a week? I wanna be myself again .my family don’t know I’m on them, and I would love to get off without them realizing. Like, if I start now with Kratom, when can I stop takeing the Tylenol completely? Any quick advice? Will Kratom stop all those symptoms I mentioned above?
You could probably switch over to kratom completely and not take any more codeine right away. It’s strong enough to help do that.
Hi Matt
Thank you for providing an online outlet for those of us suffering from addiction. I was able to purchase the powder and not the extract can you please tell me if the dosage should be higher? Will it still work? Also I don’t have the calm support. I have been taking multi vitamins, extra vitamin b6, b12 and vitamin C. Any feedback is appreciated
Matt, I’m on 100mg methadone and for 15 years. I have 30 days to detox. Will Kratom work? Do I need a hospital?
I am 65 so I can’t handle w/d like I could 25-40 years ago.
Please, any advice?
I’d trade with you yesterday if possible. I suggest taking 1/2 Tyler.4 3x day for a few days. Come in with Kratom when it gets bad. Then go all Kratom and you’ll be fine.
How to withdraw from approximately 35 mgs of dilaudid iv per day? I am a cancer patient and my doctor want to take me off opiates for six weeks. However, she isn’t providing a taper. Can I use and how much Kratom should I use to help?
I have read that kratom has anti-cancer benefits but I’m not 100% positive this is true. Here is an article that will show you different dosages that could work for you:
Kratom Overview and Dosages>>
why on earth would she take you off opiates for 6 weeks, when you have cancer! that is terrible
Start with green Bali tablets.
You get like 60 tabs for 30 bucks$.
Contact Top Extracts (Jim) and buy 4 OZ. Best deal and I recommend Red MD. It’s also good for pain.
My favorite vendor right there:
Top Extracts Review: Insanely Awesome Kratom And Other Opiate Withdrawal Remeides>>
W.Michael, Years ago I had a dialudid addiction. It went badly and I ended up using heroin. Kratom should help you but what’s shocking is what your doctor is doing.
I’d turn this doc. Into the AMA.
Best of luck!
Hi Matt,
My name is John. I left a fairly lengthy comment that started with how my dependence began and ended with the two questions I have a few hours back. After posting it I noticed it said it was being moderated and then after checking it just now it seems to have been taken down. I’m puzzled cuz I used no profanity or anything else offensive. Maybe the moderators thought it was too long. Anyways here is the short version. I want nothing more than to be free of my heroin dependence. It started as a pain management program from my doctor who retired and I couldn’t find another doctor too continue my program so low and behold I wound up on heroin. I liked it too much and started abusing it. Using up to 4 grams of the best I could find. I realized this wasn’t sustainable as soon as I ran out of usable veins and had to switch to intramuscular use which took away the addiction issues because there wasn’t a rush anymore which is what I was craving during my period of heavy use. After switching to maintenance user my consumption automatically stabilized at 1.5 grams per day. I’ve been deeply depressed for a couple years because I didn’t see a way out. Then I discovered your article three days ago I cut back by 20 percent from 1.5 to 1.2. I’d planned on staying there for a week before taking my next taper. I want to quit more than anything so I tried to taper to 1 gram today with no withdrawal symptoms worth mentioning. So here are my two questions… First is how low do you recommend I stabilize my daily dosage to before I switch to kratom? Secondly, is it ok if during my switch to kratom my symptoms get too intense, is it safe to take a xanax to either allow myself a couple hours sleep or to just calm me down from any heavy anxiety I might face? I know xanax itself is addictive but I’ve safely used it as needed for years for bouts of insomnia which only happen a couple days per week. And I’ve never had any notion to abuse it and often go a couple months without needing to use it and never have used it recreationally. My main concern is that there could be some interaction between the kratom and the xanax that could cause negative medical consequences. Thank you for your article and it’s inspiration it’s given me and have a happy holiday season!
Hi again John!! All comments have to be approved by me before they appear. That is to make sure it’s not spam or rude. I don’t work 7 days a week so sometimes it will take a day or two before I look at the comments awaiting my approval. I just approved yours and responded. 🙂
Hi Matt,
My name is John. I was a commercial crab fisherman for about 15 years until after countless broken bones I had a catastrophic shoulder and arm injury called a ruptured bicep along with ripping all the tendons and ligaments connecting my bicep to my shoulder which ended my fishing career. This created a chronic pain issue and my doctor put me on a pain management program for about six months then retired and I couldn’t find another doc to continue my program. This made me a classic cliche of the person who wound up on heroin because he couldn’t get pain meds that his doc got him dependent on and then cut him off of. Immediately after switching to heroin I began to like it too much and it turned into an addiction quickly. Until about two years ago I was using up to four grams of the best I could find. Then I realized this wasn’t sustainable once I ran out of accessible veins and had to switch to intramuscular use. That eliminated the rush which I had grown addicted to and my use tapered itself back to 1.5 grams of not that great of stuff daily. I’ve been deeply depressed for about the last year because of being dependent on something that wasn’t fun anymore and I have just been using to stay well and it really doesn’t mitigate my shoulder pain anymore. I learned of kratom from a friend and got really excited because I finally saw a way out. Being a single father in patient rehab was never a possibility because I don’t have anyone to take care of my kiddos for a few months and I never want them to know their dad ever was a drug user. Your article and method was the first one I read on line and the only one I want to go by because I don’t want to overload my brain with a million different methods and advice. Three days ago I made a twenty percent cut from 1.5 grams per day to 1.2 grams per day and didn’t have any negative symptoms worth mentioning. I’d planned on waiting a week and cutting to a gram per day but miraculously I got busy today and am going to finish the day at .9 grams. I’ve been used to four doses every 24 hrs but it appears that three doses of .3 grams per day is immediately doable. I’m not worried about dealing with cravings after I get done with the physical withdrawal which frightens me cuz I went through the whole thing several years back after my doctor retired and before I could find a drug dealer. It was unimaginable hell for about six days. You know the feeling. But know I want nothing in life more than to be free of this dependency. So here’s my questions… First how low do you think I should get my daily dosage down to before I can make the switch to kratom and still be able to function as a parent? Secondly, after I switch to kratom as well as following the rest of your program, if things get to intense can I safely get away with taking a xanax to further help mitigate the symptoms. I know xanax helps because it was the only relief I was able to get when I detoxed the last time that I explained earlier. A friend of mine gave me five xanax bars and I took one per day at the moment I thought death was a possibility and it was the only way I got a couple hours of sleep a day. I just don’t want to risk mixing three kratom with xanax if I’m going to risk some sort of dangerous interaction. Addiction to xanax is not a worry because I’ve used it off and on for years to deal with insomnia issues I’ve had my whole life and know that I go months without it from time to time and never crave it. I just want to make sure it’s a medically safe thing to use in tandem with kratom. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my very lengthy comments and questions!!! And happy holidays:)
Hi John, nice to meet you and here’s my answers to your questions:
1) You don’t need to taper down to switch to kratom in my opinion. I’ve seen people on much more than you switch over with no symptoms at all.
2). Yes, using Xanax for opiate withdrawal has been proven to be an effective treatment method.It can be dangerous to mix Xanax with kratom but it’s less dangerous than using it with opiates. And if you’re sick from opiate withdrawal then typically the Xanax just helps the anxiety and doesn’t lead to health hazards. But make sure you stay safe and never take something just because I say it could work. Look into it and make sure you’re 100% certain you can safely take something.
Happy holidays to you as well!!! 🙂
Help. Please stopped using cocaine about 3 weeks im. Expeircing anxiety and depresssion, hot body temperature sudden , that follows weird d dreams , poor concentration et…..was Taking xanax to help. With theanxiety but stopped please help i heard kratom taking
Stopping cocaine leads to extreme deficiencies in your brain’s ability to create dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter is responsible for feelings of motivation, pleasure, and to a large extent, happiness.
One of the best ways to restore dopamine production quickly is by taking mucuna pruriens, a natural supplement that contains high level so L-dopa. And L-dopa converts to dopamine in the brain. Calm Support, a supplement I mentioned in this article, contains mucuna pruriens along with many other nutrients that can restore neurotransmitters such as GABA and serotonin, which will also help you feel better. I’m sure that could help. I really hope you feel better soon.
Hi Matt! Firstly, I would like to thank you for the work you’ve done in helping people get off these poisonous drugs once and for all! To give you a little background on me, I was first introduced to painkillers when I was playing arena football, by our team doctor. Not once did he inform me that prolonged use of these little white handcuffs would leave me in horrid withdrawals. This lead me to going from one Dr to another, trying to not only deal with my back pain, but also to avoid being sick. Fast forward a few YEARS, I am now on a suboxone treatment plan, & currently taking 4mg daily. I love the fact that with the help of suboxone, I am able to live a normal life, but I’m also afraid that I just traded one addiction for another. Throughout my treatment plan, my Dr hasn’t really discussed what the end game is for me, & I find that deeply troubling. Honestly, if I could take something at night & wake up never physically needing another pill or suboxone strip, I would be the happiest man on earth! I never used painkillers for recreational use, so I am supremely confident that if I could just kick the physical withdrawal feelings, I would never go back to being handcuffed to a substance. My question is; if I were to try Kratom the way you’ve detailed in this site, what is the outlook in the long term? Will I be trading one addiction for another again, or will Kratom be significantly easier to get off of than suboxone? I’m hesitant because I would hate to jeopardize my suboxone treatment plan for something that might not work for me. Also, would Kratom be something I could try out while still in suboxone treatment? I’m not talking about taking both at the same time, but maybe try Kratom, and if it’s not for me, resume my suboxone treatment? Also, would Kratom trigger a positive drug test? As part of my suboxone treatment plan, I take a urine test before seeing my doctor. I’d hate to try Kratom & it trigger a positive drug test, thus ending my suboxone treatment. Any info on this would be GREATLY appreciated! I’m just so sick of being dependent on a substance, enough is enough. Also, it would be great if I could correspond with you in some way, email or social media, you seem like a great guy that truly wants to help people. Thank you!
-David
Hey David! Thanks for the feedback and I sincerely appreciate it!
For starters, you can’t try it when you’re still taking Suboxone. Buprenorphine has an ultra-high binding affinity to the mu- opioid receptors so that doesn’t leave room any opioid drug or herbal opioid such as kratom to fill in those receptor sites and turn on its effects.
It won’t show up on a blood test unless they are specifically testing for kratom. I’ve never in my life heard of any place that has this drug test.
And finally, I’ve only heard positive reviews from people using kratom to get off Suboxone. But there is always a chance you’ll like kratom too much and become addicted! That happens on a small percentage basis, and most are easily able to use kratom to transition off Suboxone, then use kratom and natural remedies, along with exercise to come off with relative ease.
And by “relative ease” I mean it’s a lot easier than if you came off Suboxone cold-turkey. It’s always a bit of an adjustment coming off Suboxone, but with the right plan, it’s more like a minor nuisance rather than a total horrific nightmare.
I’m also going to post a link to an article I wrote that you might really benefit from checking out:
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion>>
David, get off Subs ASAP and get on Kratom. The longer you are on Subs the harder it is to quit and the side-effects are hell. I was on 12mg x1 daily for >5 years and took the jump a couple months ago. The longer you are on Subs the harder it is to get off and the WD symptoms are something that I wouldn’t want you to have to go through. Trading Painkillers for Subs is a short term fix and works well but DO NOT take longterm. Please listen to Matt’s Kratom advice and you will do well. Best of luck to you! Mark
Thank you Matt for the prompt reply! I think I’m going to try and end this painful chapter in my life, & use the tools you’ve provided. I’ll admit, I’m really nervous in trying Kratom to get off of opiates & suboxone, but I’ve heard so many positive things about it, I figure I’d better try it now before the government gets pressured by big pharma to make Kratom illegal. Thanks again, Matt! Keep up the good work!
You’re welcome David!!! I wish you all the best! Take care. 🙂
Ok peeps here’s one for ya.
Was hooked on Cocaine for 30yrs.
I mean insanely hooked.
$1500 to $2500 3 day straight smoking w audio halucinations.
Tried everything. Programs. Meds. Amino acids.
All the sudden I stopped. The behavior…everything.
Had to be God.
That much I know.
I took 3 bullets in 1990 in a drug deal gone bad.
I rolled a vehicle coming out of Phoenix on the 10 with cruise control on after taking a 1/2 gram rock hit using 2 lighters inhaling as hard as I could.
Just remember thinking …oh shit I’m getting dizzy and can hear my heart beat.
Anyone OD in in the past knows that feeling.
Came to while still rolling off the hiway seat belt on dirt gravel flying in my mouth. Almost rolled on my arm but somehow it flung in before getting smashed during one of the 3 rolls.
Walked away from that crash.
Threw my pipe and dope out of car during the crash and when cops and paramedics came I went with fell asleep at wheel.
Not a hinkling of the truth.
Again GOD.
So it’s been 8 months now. Sure I do oxycodone for my gunshot injuries. 1 bullet is in a disc of my back.
That’s just a snapshot of my 30 yr misery now turned freedom.
Kratom is not an opiate but it is used by many for getting rid of opiates. Limited research has shown that the alkaloids found in the kratom leaves are able to help regulate the amount of insulin and glucose is in the blood, effectively preventing the dangerous peaks and troughs that diabetics face. Kratom is a substitute for treatment of heroin or opiate withdrawal. It is natural stimulant utilized for improving physical performance.
Hi, My husband is starting Kratom tomorrow for opiate withdrawal. He cannot take grapefruit juice due to being on Blood pressure medication. Could you suggest another juice. Thank you so much and i do believe Kratom will help my husband after all of these years of hell.
Any juice or water, almond milk, or whatever. Flaxseed oil and black seed oil both help to potentiate it as well, and it only takes about 1 tsp to 1 tbs. But kratom still works well on it’s own.
Does your program outline step by step how to take Kratom, For how long it should be taken and what to expect? It is all a mystery and all internet sites say different things. He took the red and it made him feel like hell. The green is much better for him for opiate withdrawal. I am having a problem with my hatred toward these medical doctors who prescribed this then offering no help to get off of it then cutting him off completely.
Hi Trish, I thought I outlined how to take the kratom in this article. I’m writing a book on using kratom for detox but that doesn’t help you now.
I’m going to post a link to another article I wrote that talks about how to use kratom and what dosages/strains provide what effects.
Hopefully that will help you clarify things more:
Top Extracts Review: Insanely Awesome Kratom and Other Opiate Withdrawal Remedies>>
Hey Matt!
Wow! I just spent hours reading these testimonies! It seems like most of these folks were taking sub, methodone or heroin.
I’m not an addict nor do I have an addictive personality. But I certainly have developed a dependency on the Opiates I’ve been taking for 8 years! I’m a vet who was medically discharged years ago diagnosed with degenerative disc disease. I have good days and bad days for sure. My doc has had me on this “pain management plan” for years. A couple times I have missed getting my refills (like over a weekend) and I hated the I’ll effects of NOT having these Opiates. This is what is making me want to get off them completely. I DONT LIKE HAVING TO HAVE ANYTHING!
Truth be told, I’m pretty much petrified to get off the Opiates now! I currently take 3 20 mg daily of OxyContin and 2 10-325 of oxycodine for breakthrough pain. (Total of 80mg daily)
I would love to try the Kratom to break the dependency! I have a few questions…
1. Should I try to ween off the current meds first?
2. If so, while weening should I start taking Kratom? If so, what dosage?
I appreciate your feedback. Thx
Hey Jim,
It’s so nice to meet you, and I’m very pleased to know that all of the success stories have inspired you! There’s a lot of positivity on here! As for your questions:
If your body and mind could tolerate tapering from 80 mg down to 40 mg over the course of 1-2 months, that would enable a very easy transition to kratom. However, if your body and mind would struggle doing this, then I would just transition to kratom from where you’re currently at.
You would just need to take a bit more kratom than if you transitioned at a lower dosage. You could always purchase some premium kratom, then one day wake up and instead of taking oxy, take the kratom instead, and play around with the dose to see if you can take an amount that makes you avoid withdrawal symptoms.
If you do well on the kratom, you could just remain stabilized on it for awhile, maybe a few weeks to 6 weeks, then you could go on a kratom taper, which is much easier to do than an oxy taper or a taper of any other opioid. Kratom seems to gently and naturally soothe the opioid receptors, allowing for a much gentler taper and then detox off the kratom.
From your current dosage of 80 mg of oxy, you may do well on anywhere from 6-8 grams of kratom per dose, 3-5 or even 6 times a day. You also might need more, like 9-10 grams, but you never know until you try it. You could use your last dose of oxy at night when you usually take it, then the next morning, instead of taking oxy, mix a teaspoon of kratom in juice or water, and wait 60 minutes to see how you feel and tolerate the kratom. If it’s not enough to make you feel okay, take another teaspoon, Wait another 60 minutes, and take up to 3 teaspoons. Though the weights vary depending on the strain, a teaspoon is around 3 grams. So 3 teaspoons would be somewhere around 9 grams, which I believe would be enough, and you may only need 2 teaspoons per dose.
Things like grapefruit juice, orange juice, flaxseed oil, blackseed oil, and turmeric can potentiate the kratom effects, making the effects stronger in magnitude and lasting longer in duration.
Let me know if you have any more questions Jim, and again, it’s such a pleasure to meet you. I really enjoyed reading your story, and I sincerely thank you for serving our country! Please don’t be petrified to get off opiates. Maybe kratom will make you feel better than the oxy. Maybe you’ll have a relatively easy time tapering off kratom after you transition onto it, and maybe you’ll just enjoy taking kratom daily for pain relief, and you’ll decide to stay on it long-term, as many have done.
Kratom is so much healthier for your body than synthetic manmade opioid drugs. I’m currently writing a book on kratom and how to use it for opioid recovery, and I’ve found out so much amazing stuff during my in-depth research. Along with being an opioid agonist, kratom also contains alkaloids that are immune-modulating, anti-cancer, muscle relaxing, and much more. There are at least 28 active alkaloids and the science on this plant is truly remarkable. I can’t wait to publish my book so people can really understand the myriad benefits of this plant.
Hi Matt, I hoping you can help me with my methadone withdrawal. I started using oxycontin for pain relief when I was about 24 yrs old. I have degenerative discs in my neck/upper back which is very painful. Anyway, I used oxycontin for about 2 years and eventually started using heroin. That was the worst mistake of my life bc once on it I couldn’t get off due to severe withdrawal symptoms. So after using heroin for about 5 yrs, I finally had enough and started going to a methadone maintenance clinic. Now I’ve been going to the clinic for about 7 years. In the last year and a half I have slowly weened down from 145mgs of liquid methadone a day to just 9mgs. I was completely fine the whole way down, no withdrawal symptoms until I reached 19mgs but still it was bearable. Since then I’ve continued to feel the symptoms more and more as I get lower. I am currently tapering 1mg per week and will go down to 8mgs on Monday. So I’m hoping to be completely off in about 8 more wks. The problem is, I have absolutely no energy. I can barely get up and take a shower and make food for myself now. On top of that the restless legs are driving me nuts. I’m barely sleeping and when I do I wake up every few minutes. So my question is, can I start using kratom to help reduce the restless legs, lack of energy and insomnia while I’m tapering from 8mgs to zero over the next 2 months or do I have to wait till I get to zero to start using kratom? I’m hoping that I can take it for some relief while still tapering but I don’t want to mess up the taper and the progress I’ve made and make myself worse. I see everyone saying to exercise and I can’t even imagine doing that bc my strength is pretty depleted. So is starting kratom now an option and if not, when is it ok to start? Cravings are not an issue, I never wanna go back on heroin again. Yes I have pain in my back and neck but I’d rather deal with it than ever be addicted to heroin or oxycontin again. I’ve had no desire to use again, and I would never let myself even if I did. I just want relief of these withdrawal symptoms while I finish my taper and to be able to sleep at night. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated.
I just helped my good friend in a very similar situation to yours. He was down to 18 mg of methadone, and he was really tired all the time, and couldn’t see how he could taper off all the way.
I showed him this article, and he bought kratom, then jumped off methadone at 18 mg and said the kratom was a life-saver. He took kratom for a few weeks then started to taper off kratom, for a total of 2 months on kratom.
Now he is free off kratom and methadone, and he’s trying to get off crystal meth, which is difficult for him. So to answer your questions:
1. Yes you can take kratom while tapering off methadone, but I wouldn’t do that if it were me. I would just get some kratom, stop taking methadone and replace it with kratom, then taper off the kratom, which is MUCH easier than tapering off methadone after being on it for so many years.
2. For energy, I actually just published an article that has an amazing nootropic that boosts energy while quitting opioids like nothing I’ve ever seen. Click on the link below to read about it:
Nootropics For Opiate Withdrawal: The Ultimate Guide To Nootropics>>
Thank you so much Matt! So I’ll be going down to 8mgs on Monday and want to take your advice about just jumping off methadone at my current dose and start using kratom but am afraid for one reason. I currently go to my clinic once a week for my dose so my worry is that I’ll start taking kratom on Tuesday, the day after I take my 8mg dose at the clinic. I will have my take home bottles for the week but won’t touch them, I’ll try just using the kratom but a week isn’t really much time to see if it is working. My fear is that if for some reason just being on the kratom doesn’t work and I start to really feel withdrawal symptoms, that I won’t be able to return to my clinic after missing the next weekly visit. I hope I’m explaining this clearly…lol….what I’m trying to say is I’m probably going to have to miss my weekly methadone appointment while I’m trying to use only kratom. What do I do if after missing my weekly visit I suddenly realize kratom isn’t enough to help me? I don’t know if they will just let me back into the clinic bc I’ll have missed a weeks worth of dosing. You’ve worked at a place like this, do you know if I’d be ejected for that? Also, if they did let me continue there, would 8mgs not be enough to make me well again since I’d have been off methadone at that point and only on kratom for 1-2 wks? I would hate to have to up my methadone dose if I felt I had to return to the clinic. I am hoping jumping off methadone and replacing it with just kratom will really work but just in case I have these questions. Sorry to be a bother, I know you are super busy 😕
In my professional opinion, kratom is more than strong enough to help someone get off a much higher dose of methadone without withdrawal symptoms. I think you’ll actually have a different problem. Since kratom is so strong, you’ll have to make sure you don’t take too much because you’ll actually get off from it.
I’ve seen people on 25 mg of methadone and even 40 mg of methadone switch over to kratom, then get high because it’s fast-acting. Methadone is slow onset, slow offset, and kratom hits you fast and hard.
But I see your concern. You could always just get some kratom, pick up your take-homes, then not dose for the next 3 days from home, meanwhile take the kratom and see how you feel on it. If you don’t feel good on it, you can start dosing with the methadone again and then continue to go pick up your take-homes.
You do have to continue going to pick up take-homes otherwise you could get knocked down a step, or even have them totally revoked for a period. So you need to stay compliant. However, this 3 or 4 days off methadone test should be a good gauge as to whether or not the kratom will give you the relief that you desire. Make sense?
Ok, thank you for all the great advice. You truly are an amazing person. You give so much of your time to help each and every person that comes to you, just trying to get out of this seemingly never ending cycle of opioid addiction. I am beyond grateful! I’m going to order the kratom and do exactly what you said and I will check back in and let you know how it turns out. Oh, it just occurred to me that it might be even easier to jump off at 8mgs than usual bc I’ve been splitting my dose for the last 2 months bc I have a super fast metabolism and I feel like crap by the evening if I don’t split the dose. If I’m not mistaken, I’ve read that it can help make the withdrawal length shorter or less severe since methadone’s half life should be less if I’ve been splitting my dose. Not sure if that’s true but if it is, I hope it will help. Anyway, I’m nervous but excited at the same time. Wish me luck! I’ll keep you updated. ☺
Yes it will be much easier than you think with the kratom, trust me. And I’m glad you’re also excited because you should be! Good for you! And thanks for the kind feedback I really appreciate it. 🙂
Oh, one more question…don’t wanna be a pain in the ass but just wanted to ask you how long after I take my methadone should I start taking kratom? Like when I pick up my take homes on Monday I won’t use them but will have to dose that morning at the clinic. I will be taking my dose at 7:30am, so how many hours do I wait to take the kratom? Should I take it that night when I would normally take my second dose of methadone or wait till I feel the withdrawal symptoms a little bit more?
You’re not being a pain, you just want to know what to do and I would be asking the same questions. That shows that you really want to do this right.
I would take the kratom later in the evening when you normally take the other half of your methadone split dose. Please note that you won’t feel the full effects of the kratom for a few days, because it will take awhile for the methadone to slowly leave your system. After about 3-4 days off methadone, the kratom effects will be much stronger than that first night. Each day it will feel stronger for probably up to around a week.
Make sure you don’t take enough kratom to get high, as you don’t want fall in love with kratom and then spend years addicted to that. Although it’s much healthier for your body than methadone and other synthetic opioid drugs.
But even though the kratom that first night will not be in full effect due to the methadone still competing for your opioid receptors, it will still prevent sickness from ensuing. It’s very effective.
Hello Matt,
Just checking in to let you know today is day 19 I took the jump cold turkey from Subs. I have been to hell and back but never ever could have done this without your Kratom, Diet, & nutritional advice. I am now feeling great & so free from that awful opioid grip that consumed my life for so long.
Thanks for being there for all of us who need help.
Mark
WONDERFUL Mark!!!!!! I couldn’t be more proud of you!!! What you’ve done is a remarkable feat, and it must feel so good to have Subs out of your system and not need to take them on a daily basis to prevent sickness.
Your liver and brain thank you, and I commend you for a job well done. Thanks for the progress update Mark, and keep up the amazing work my friend. Enjoy that great feeling, and keep it with you. You’re an inspiration. Take care. 🙂
Hey Matt, just wanna update you on my progress and maybe see if you have a little advice for me. So instead of jumping off methadone at 8mgs, I tapered down for 2 more weeks until I got to 6mgs. At 6mgs I was really feeling the withdrawal bad by evening time and splitting the dose didn’t help much.
So I jumped off at 6mgs and started using the Red Vein Bali kratom. I’ve been taking vitamins as well. Anyway, it’s going pretty well so far but have had a few little problems. I’m now going into day 5 without methadone. I’m very happy I was able to get this far but am getting a little nervous now.
I first tried taking the kratom powder and mixing it with OJ. I’m allergic to grapefruit juice so I can’t use that. I used 1 tablespoon and mixed it with the juice. Omg it was so disgusting, lol. I got half the cup down and had to stop for 10 or 15 min bc I didn’t wanna throw up. When I tried finishing it, I immediately vomited from the taste. Some must have been absorbed though bc I started feeling better about 30 min later. For my next dose I bought capsules and filled them. It took longer to feel it and it wasn’t as strong but I did take less so that’s probably why.
So I took 5 capsules (about 5 grams I think). I did that for the first 2 days and it worked well enough. Withdrawal was totally gone as long as I took it within 6 or 7 hours each time. By the 3rd day the withdrawal was worse. I had to go up to 7g at a time and started feeling sick by 3 and a half hours, same with today. I’ve been pushing myself to wait 4-5 hours tho between each dose. So now I just finished day 4. It’s midnight and by 2am I’ll be starting day 5.
Now I’m a little worried about ending up in withdrawal from kratom bc I have to take it so often. Another problem is that I had no withdrawal the first 2 days but 3 and 4 have been harder. Even when I take 7g I still feel weak and my RLS is bothering me somewhat. Should I be taking a higher dose?
Also, the first 2 nights I slept till morning but since then I’m being woken up with intense RLS, like real bad after only 2 or 3 hours sleeping. When the RLS wakes me up it’s also accompanied by a pounding heartbeat and I feel really shaky. The heartbeat and shakiness only lasts like 20 min but it freaks me out. So today I napped for an hour today and woke up abruptly with the RLS really bad again but I had just taken kratom like 2 and a half hours before so I guess maybe I’m not taking emough, I dunno?
So I decided to take one 5mg valium today to calm my heartbeat and legs and it worked but only for an hour and a half. My heart was fine but RLS came back. I’m dreading going to sleep tonight bc of the painful and abrupt RLS I get woken up with. I feel it when I’m awake too but much worse if I wake up with it. Should I take a valium at bedtime for a few days? And do you think the hardest part of withdrawal will be over soon since I’m going on day 5? Also, I have no idea when to stop using kratom. I can’t even think about weaning yet bc I’m still in pain sometimes. So what is your opinion? Raise the dose and take valium or wean down bc I’m going on day 5? So confused and nervous bc I definitely don’t wanna end up back at the clinic. I’m not gonna go Monday bc if I do they will make me take my dose and by then I’ll have been off for 7 days so I think it will just set me back. But if the withdrawal is gonna get a lot more severe as days go on I dunno if I could do it. Do you think I’m almist through the acute withdrawal days?
Hi again! Don’t worry, just increase the amount of kratom you’re taking. It sounds like you’d really benefit from taking 9-10 grams of kratom per dose, and you I’m glad you got the capsules since it was making you puke! One trick I did was use my blender to mix the kratom with juice well, then I would plug my nose while I drank it, and after drinking it, chug some milk while my nose was still plugged. Then, I would unplug my nose and as a result, never tasted the kratom or even had a kratom aftertaste.
And methadone withdrawal is not the same as withdrawal from short-acting opioids. With short-acting opioids, Day 1 sucks, Day 2 is much worse, and Days 3-4 are the peak where the withdrawal symptoms are the most severe, and Day 5 you still don’t feel well, but the main part is over and the withdrawal symptoms subside considerably.
With methadone, Suboxone, Probuphine, Zubsolv, and other long-acting opioids, the acute withdrawal symptoms don’t begin after 12 hours, like with short-acting opioids. Instead they begin around hour 30, and they slowly get worse and worse. Thus, Day 5 of methadone withdrawal is not even the peak of intensity yet. Also, you’ve been on methadone for quite some time, thus, your withdrawal could last a few weeks.
In which case I’d encourage you to increase your kratom dosage to a level that stabilizes you and provides you with enough mental and physical health to feel at least okay on a daily basis. I would stay on your optimal stabilization dosage for at least 3 weeks if not 4 or even 5. Then, from this point, I would start a kratom taper.
I would lower my dose every 7 days. As an example, lets say you were taking 10 grams of kratom, 3x a day during you several week kratom stabilization period. Then, when it came time to taper, you could drop that dose to 8 grams of kratom 3x a day. 7 days later, drop it to 6 grams, then 7 days later, 4 grams, then 3.5 grams, 3 grams, 2.5 grams, 2 grams, 1.5 grams, 1 gram, then jump off kratom.
You can customize you taper plan any way you like. It’s much easier to taper off kratom than anything else available. It’s a true miracle plant for this.
I’m actually writing a book right now that I’ll publish in a few months, which has hundreds of pages of detailed information on this method. So far, the title which could be altered is The Kratom Playbook For Opiate Recovery: How to use the Kratom-Transistion-And-Taper Method to get off ANY Opioid with Ease.
I’ve coined the terms Kratom-Transition-And-Taper Method and K-TAT Method, and the book is going to shed light on some really amazing opioid recovery techniques using kratom and literally dozens of other very helpful strategies and tactics.
To answer your last question:
I don’t think you’re almost through the acute withdrawal days. My best guess would be that you have 1-2 weeks of acute withdrawal based on your methadone history, even though you tapered to a low amount. I would just take more kratom, exercise, eat healthily, drink plenty of water, and take the recommended supplements, as well as use other methods you’ll find on this website.
If you have any more questions, I’m more than happy to see you through this. You’re doing great, and I’m super proud of you! Keep up the good work my friend. You’ll get through this.
Hey Matt, just checking in to let you know how it’s going. I’m on day 18 without methadone and it has gotten a lot easier. The Red Bali kratom has been a lifesaver. I would have never been able to get off methadone without it. I wish I had known about it years ago.
The first 2 wks I felt exhausted all the time but that was ok as long as the kratom was keeping all my other withdrawal symptoms at bay. I only felt the symptoms start to get bad if I would let more than 5 hours go by without taking another dose.
Once I got to day 14 I noticed a reduction of my symptoms. Since then I can go 6-9 hours without having to take another dose. Even when I do wait longer, the withdrawal symptoms I start to feel are less severe. I’m sleeping much better and have more energy than I did the first 2 weeks. I notice on the days I eat the healthiest that I sleep the best.
I’m still not through my withdrawal but I’m hoping I will be soon. I tried reducing my kratom dose by 1 gram about 4 days ago but I felt the withdrawal symptoms on that dose so I went back to my regular dose of 6 grams. I’m gonna try to reduce again in about 3 days when I get to day 21. I hope I’m able to do it. I kniw you said it may take a month or two for me to get through the acute withdrawal since I was on a high dose of methadone for 7 years so I’m thinking positive and trying to be patient.
I’m hoping what I feel when I tried reducing my dose was still the methadone withdrawal and not kratom withdrawal. I’m hoping tapering off kratom isn’t as painful as methadone. I believe it’s the methadone withdrawal I’m still feeling bc the symptoms came right away when I reduced my dose and kratom withdrawal symptoms wouldn’t start for like 24 hours or so, right? Just wanted to check with you. Anyway, I’m still happy with how much the kratom has helped and hope I’m on my way to being completely done with withdrawal 😀
Congrats on your achievement! Wow this is great news! Keep on kicking butt, and yes…you were on methadone for a very, very long time, thus I wouldn’t rush getting off kratom.
It’s the only thing saving your butt right now. For your situation, you might really benefit from remaining stabilized for at least 4 weeks total if not 6 weeks, before starting a taper. Sometimes methadone withdrawal lasts 1-2 months after getting off methadone, so trying to taper off kratom too early is counterproductive.
Furthermore, I hope you have some really good supplements to help you through this. That’s what will be the extra help you need once you start tapering off kratom.
Hey Matt, just wanted to let you know I’ve been off methadone for about 35 days now. Feeling so much better. I still feel weak but not as bad as a few weeks ago. I’m still not sleeping normally but I have nights where I sleep 8 hours which is great. I tried tapering off kratom a couple of times over the past 2 weeks but still felt too sick to keep it up. Two days ago I went down to 5 grams and am feeling ok so I’m gonna stay at this dose for a few days and then continue the taper. I just wanna thank you for all your advice and help. I couldn’t have done this without kratom and your guidance. I will be forever grateful to you. What you do here really saves lives. Thank you so much!!
This is wonderful news!!! Congrats on your success, and you really have come a long way, my friend. Enjoy this feeling and I’m sure you’ll be fine as long as you taper according to how your body responds. Thank you for the very kind words, and it was my privilege to provide you with information on how to feel okay during this process. Also, I thank you for posting here to share your experience using this method. You’ve added a lot of value to this comment section. Take care!
Matt
I am using the tool you suggested to stop taking 4 to 5 hydros a day, for years, due to a broken neck. I just received both Calm Support and Maeng Da. I have already gone down to a 3.5 a day tapper. I have two questions, do you have a method I could follow using the tapper method? And also is it OK to take Kratom to help with the WD at the same time I am tappering myself off?
Thanks
Hi Casey,
If I were you, I would combine the kratom method along with the method I teach in this article:
How To Taper Off Opiates Without Withdrawal>>
And yes, it’s ok to take the kratom during the taper period.
WOW, I feel human been taking 28 mg sub for 6 months, stopped cold turkey. OMG my rls and not being able to sleep ect ect,,,,,,,I thought sub saved my life from opioid addiction but never thought of WD from sub.. Trust me KRATOM works….
Happy to hear the kratom is preventing you from experiencing Suboxone withdrawal That’s simply wonderful! 🙂
Dear Matt,
I am currently on a 2mg Suboxone taper. In 2 months, I will be completely off if I stay on schedule. I went down from 4mg earlier this week and its about day 5 and I am feeling the exhaustion, yawning, runny nose, muscle aches (the symptoms you have mentioned) even though I am still taking the 2mg every morning. Is it okay to use the Kratom to help alleviate (and keep me from taking more sub) while I am tapering or do I have to be off the Subs first?
Don’t take the kratom while still on Suboxone. The buprenorphine has such a high affinity for the mu opioid receptors that it blocks out all other opioids you try and take.
Are you taking any supplements on your taper? Those can really help. You also cut your dosage by 50% and that was more than your body wanted you to lower it. So now you’re paying the price. I would recommend taking supplements and exercising during the taper, and after awhile your body should adjust to 2 mg.
If it were me I would have only gone from 4 mg to 3.5 mg or at most 3 mg. Here is an article I wrote that has a ton of remedies you can use that will help to reduce your withdrawal symptoms:
Suboxone Withdrawal Remedies THAT WORK>>
Also, for energy, stress relief, and a feeling of joy, I just tried a nootropic stack called the Ultimate Focus Stack.
I finally found something that is AMAZING at giving a person instant energy while getting off opioids or lowering dosage on a taper. The nootropics in this stack work synergistically and man oh man, they really make you feel good. This stack gives you the motivation and happiness that is zapped from you while coming off opioids.
It’s a miracle I discovered this stuff!!!
Hello, here I am day 8 stopped subs cold turkey. I have been on 12mg x 1 daily for 8 years and I am sick of being a slave to this drug. Like a fool I was completing in the dark about the serious WD symptoms until it hit me around day 2. I have been taking Kratom but not nearly as much as I have heard about on other post. Day 2-7 virtually no sleep whatsoever. RLS, severe arm pain & weekness, feel as I am jumping out of my skin constantly & worse of all severe insomnia. Nighttime is hell for me and I am not sure why my WD hits me so hard at around 2:00am daily. Last night I slept a few hours because I increased my Kratom and sadly had to resort to taking Clonazepam. Please give me some abvice and let me know if the worst is now over. Thank you very much.
I’m so sorry to hear you’re having to go through this difficult process Mark. The best advice I can give you is to read my article on Suboxone withdrawal remedies and see what else you can take to help you reduce the severity of your symptoms.
Suboxone Withdrawal Remedies THAT WORK>>
Mark, let me know if you have any other questions as I’m happy to assist. Hang in there buddy. You can make it through this.
Thank you, Matt. I really appreciate your quick feedback. I am fortunate enough to have plenty of Kratom on hand so I Intend to use it per your instructions. In your opinion do you think the worse of my WD symptoms are over? Tomorrow is day 9 clean of Subs!
Best regards,
Mark
My pleasure Mark. I’m happy to help. And I’m glad to hear you have plenty of kratom. As for withdrawal symptoms, the worst of your withdrawal symptoms should be over at least close to it. Make sure to do a short kratom taper before you jump off it completely, and use the recommended supplements, nutrition, and exercise as well.
Congrats on your 9 days off Subs!!!! That must feel AMAZING!!!
I was a furniture mover & suffered a lot of back pain. I took 4 10mg methadone tabs a day. Then mom passed so I had to move from Monterey, ca to Missouri😠 to care for my dad. My doctor told me to taper taking a half pill less every 2 weeks. I finally took my last 5mg of methadone then came the withdrawals, sleeplisness, skincrawls & wrestlers leg syndrome. I knew I had to be 100% percent. So after 10 of no methadone I found out about Meat on. In Missouri it’s hard to find! I had to call about 15 different stores and then found it at a headshop. Almost completely cured me of withdrawals. I researched deeply & its not an opiate the way methadone is. Ive never been an addict. Just like anyone when you take pain killers for an extended amount of time withdrawals are a side effect. TAKING KRATOM DOES NOT PROLONG THE WITHDRAWAL PROCESS. You’re wd’s are still happening, but are almost non existent. The Meat on works naturally to help. When u feel you’re done with Kratom any residual withdrawals will be very mild like quitting coffee. Taking Kratom is not like taking hydrocodone and it works on a whole different level. It doesn’t bind to your receptors in the same way opiates do.
Hi there. I just want to share my experience with you and whoever might need help. I read this over and over but mostly I read your comments and felt I had last hope to beat this tramadol addiction. I went to a little market in Lincoln City and bought red vein powder and white vein capsules. My last tramadol was at 1pm I took half a teaspoon of red with chocolate milk at 8:45pm. I felt the warm rush in 5 min. Maybe I should of taken it at 5 but it was very strong. Very heady for me but wth I threw the tramadol across the room and text my niece and just rode it out. Around 12am I started yawning and felt really good. I ate a little something and it really made me feel good. I didn’t want to sleep. But I knew it was important to sleep so I took my Ambien and ate some pineapple and crackers and fell right to sleep. I think I woke up at 5 or 6 with a few symptoms but popped 2 white and fell in and out of sleep. I have had only 1 sweat session for a minute here and there but nothing else. I took 2 more at 10 and ate some eggos and turkey sausage w/coffee at 11. Just being able to walk down to the kitchen and do this is a miracle. Last week when I attempted to stop I couldn’t even see or breathe. I was a sweating mess! I was all over the bed in front of the fan. Even tho I was sweating I would get really cold. I couldn’t take it and called in for a script. I cried as I swallowed the pills but 20 min later I was feeling normal. Whatever that normal is. I sat in the movie theater that night and felt like a loser. That’s when I decided to really research natural remedy to stop. I have loads of gabapentin that’s supposed to help but I just couldn’t see myself loading up on a anti seizure med. I’m a health nut and I felt that was my last resort. I would see quick note in other forms to try Kratom but not much other info. Then I found this forum and another and decided ok I will give it a shot. It seems to be working for me. I have not touched the pills and don’t care. It is half way thru my first day and I’m sure I have the tram still in my system. Maybe when it is all out I will have full blown withdrawal. I don’t know. I wanted to get out and do things but I’m going to lay low and do little things. Wash my hair clean the house. I think I prefer the white vein but I will try taking a smaller dose of red tonight and see how that goes. Just feeling like my old self from 2011 is so nice. My eyes are more wide open and I just see things differently. I want to thank you all for being so raw and honest. It helped me have that honest look at myself and just want to be a better role model for my niece and myself. I know I can help someone else down the road. I will post again tomorrow and let you know. Wish me luck.
Well it’s day 5. I’m still taking the Kratom. I had 2 days of very little sleep and have to work a full week so Dang! The K is still working. I. Still taking around the same number of capsules and red powder in the eve. Last night I took a little more then I usually do and got that heady feel and very light nausea. I took to Lope and started feeling better but got really cold. A hot bath fixed that. I went to bed at 11 and work up at 4am. I fell back to sleep at 6:30 after taking 2 wvein. I woke up at 8 and got ready for work. I’m just wondering how much longer I should do this. I felt really tired and draggy at work so I took to 2 more wvein at 11:30 and feel better. I don’t want the tramadol but I miss the way I felt. If I still had my pills I don’t know if I would of taken them. That makes me sad. I still don’t feel like myself and have this weird tick in my right eye. I don’t want to continue everyday of K so I will start to taper this weekend to just 1 capsule twice a day and 1/4 powder at night if I need it. I was going to get some grapefruit juice but I don’t think I need the K to work better then it already is. Im happy I’m pill free at day 5 but I thought I would feel more joy. I feel kinda empty. I’ve read enough to know that this is par of the course and to give myself time but it still sucks. I will post again this weekend on my taper. Til then:)
Hi it’s Steph from mid September post last year. I came off the Kratom too soon and experienced Tramadol withdrawal symptoms like sneezing ECT. But Paws got me early January. I just felt good awful empty. So I started the Tram again. It was not the same. I would get ringing in my ears and a little hard to breathe and some bad headaches. I was taking 200 mil a day. Come on. That was stupid. So I started the Kratom 4 days ago. I still get the ringing and some hot flashes but it’s going good. I might have to take a anti depressent after the physical wears off or maybe more exercise and supplements. I just really underestimated Paws and how bad it makes you feel and forget why you wanted to stop the addiction in the first place. But Kratom is a godsend and thanks Matt and you peeps for posting. Matt I will buy your book cause I think Kratom is going to be the plant that will save so many lives if given the chance!
Steph, reading your posts were very inspiring. You are very raw honest & brave. My friend is going through a very similar situation with PAWS. I am wondering how are you doing now?
Kratom just changed my life. I have been on Kratom & no oxy or poppy tea for 8 days straight with no issues.
Please people, use it and get OFF your opiates. It’s almost too good to be true but I cannot believe my life change.
Wow Dan!!! Good for you!!! Keep up the great work and I wish you the best on your opiate recovery journey. 🙂
Hi Matt. Thank you for all the awesome advice on Kratom! I have been on 80 mills of methadone for 5 years, lots of other opioids before that for 5 years. I tapered down fast, from 8 a day to 6 the next day to 5 and so on the first week. I’m in week 2 of no methadone. I read your article and started taking Kratom about 5 days ago, I started with about 5 grams and felt no difference. Two days later I tryed about 15 grams and voila! Now I’m taking about 30 grams a day. My withdrawal symptoms without it are horrendous. I get up in the morning and my whole body feels like I’m going to have a seizure, never had one but only way I can explain it. I take a heaping teaspoon of Kratom in grapefruit juice and 20 minutes later I’m fine. I’ve reasearched lots of articles on how long it takes to become physically addicted to Kratom, because I’m worried about it. I am a business owner and I can’t go to work jonesing but I don’t want to become addicted to this stuff. I’ve heard it takes 30 days to develop a dependence. Can you please give me your thoughts?
Hi Steve,
It’s so awesome to hear that the kratom is preventing severe methadone withdrawal. Congrats on getting off that stuff! It’s not easy. As for the kratom, you may wish to stay at your present dose for a few days to a week, then start tapering off it over the course of 3-4 weeks.
You could do something like:
Week 1: 30 grams
Week 2: 21 grams
Week 3: 14 grams
Week 4: 7 grams
Week 5: 3.5 grams
Then jump off kratom at 3.5 grams
If you take the recommended supplements, eat healthy, exercise, drink plenty of water, and get to sleep before 11 pm consistently, all of these combined with the kratom taper will allow you to significantly reduce withdrawal symptoms. And if you also get a full-body deep tissue massage every 7-14 days, take an epsom salt bath 2-3 nights a week, and do qigong 2-3 times a week or more, these will also help tremendously.
Let me know if you have any other questions. And again CONGRATS on getting off methadone! Now it’s time for part 2 which is using the kratom taper and other natural methods to finish the job. 🙂
Hello Matt, I wrote to you a few days ago and want to thank you for your Kratom and nutritional advice. I was a longterm subs user (12mg daily) for many years and quit cold turkey. I wish I was better educated (as I am know thanks to you) and better prepared before the jump. Days 2-7 I was walking death and actually thought I would be better off. I am now on day 12 off of Subs and experiencing very little WD. I am actually starting to sleep at night and man that feels so good! Thank you for being there for me in my time of need. Best regards, Mark
Hi Mark,
Congrats on your 12 days off Subs!!! This is remarkable…especially given the dosage you were on for several years. I’m really happy to hear that you’re sleeping and experiencing very little withdrawal. I’m glad I was able to be there for you! I know it’s no walk in the park getting off opioids, so again I just want to say how proud of you I am. Keep it up, as your new life of freedom awaits you. 🙂
Kratom is an AMAZING, rarely spoken-of resource for opiate Detox. It is unfortunate the US is now trying to make it a Schedule I substance, similar to the likes of Cocaine, Heroin & Ecstasy. Pretty much any medication or substance you take, your body will develop a dependence to it because it causes the body to change (it exerting its effects so it can work). The key is recognizing this and not letting the use get out of hand, or turn into abuse. Something else that anyone who is thinking of quitting opiates should consider is, no matter what, you will feel the effects of withdrawal, albeit physical or mental. That’s your body’s way of expelling the toxic buildup of the drug in your body and trying to adjust to how it was before you started abusing. If you go into it with a positive, yet tolerant mindset things will be much easier for you. I did not do that the first few times, and ended up right back in the Lions Den because I expected things like Kratom to be a miracle based off a lot of what I read, and then when I still felt cravings, got so frustrated and felt it was not working for me, and gave in to temptation, rather than be so thankful for how much pain I was being saved from taking the Kratom.
Depending on how much you abuse per day (I was blowing around 210mg of oxy a day for 3-4 years) and due to the very short half life and length of effects of Kratom, I found 6-7 grams, 3 to 4 times a day to be the perfect amount during Detox. It varies per person, just make sure, if you start feeling euphoric effects from Kratom, you’re probably taking too much. As I mentioned earlier it can be addicting too, especially to people quitting opiates, who now have little to no chemicals in the brain producing pleasure, so anything that does you automatically gravitate towards.
During acute Detox I took around 6-7 grams, 3-4x per day, basically when I started to feel the symptoms coming back, and then once right before I went to bed so I could try to sleep. I still had somewhat difficulty sleeping even on Kratom during acute Detox, but I am such a light sleeper anyways and attributed it to that, as when I have detoxes cold turkey I went as long as 4 days with 30 minutes of sleep. A crucial part a lot of people overlook while detoxing/abusing opiates is how much you have neglected your body. It is so vital during this stage that you nourish your body with clean, healthy foods, tons of veggies, a LOT of protein, and cut back on caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, and sugar as they will cause you to crash. It might seem like a quick fix initially, but, speaking from experience, you will regret it after a few hours (again, everyone is different, so maybe not!) another step that helped me not only quit Kratom, but through the early stages of Detox was FORCING myself to exercise, and do things that (prior to abusing pills) made me happy. I truly underestimated the importance of exercising throughout this. I am 3 months clean currently and can say I would not be if it had not been for exercise. It took my mind off of cravings, made me feel relaxed and happy (huge plus, especially during Detox).
I used Kratom for 1 week at the dose listed above, and then to avoid withdrawal from that, I cut the dosing intervals in half, and began to cut my actual doses in half (around 3-4 g) over the following week.
Not to sound dramatic, but I never thought I would achieve sobriety given how bad my addiction got. I know some people have it much worse, but at 5’2″ and 100 pounds, 210mg of oxy a day is an elephant sized habit. During my last (& final) Detox, I stumbled across Opiate Addiction Support. Anyone looking to quit, seriously, should look at Matts home Detox eCourse and the hundreds of helpful articles he’s taken the time to write and post regarding supplements to help cope through withdrawal, getting your energy back, making it through PAWS etc. even as a healthcare provider, I was not even nearly as fully educated about all the different ways you can alleviate your withdrawal symptoms, and would not be clean to this day if it weren’t for this page! Thank you again Matt!
Epic comment!!! You totally made my day, and this success story you shared will help the thousands of people a month that read this article.
I’m so proud of you for getting off opiates using kratom, and I sincerely thank you for sharing the exact methods by which you became opiate-free.
Also, thanks for the testimonial on my Ultimate Opiate Detox 2.0 program…I sure wish there was something like that out when I quit!
Best,
Matt
This is going to be a very honest an open comment. I AM AN ADDICT. I can be clean for an amount of time but i can and always give in. It is who i am and i ACCEPT IT. There are people like me out there and i want you to know kratom is the answer. So this is the longest ive ever been off of opiates… Why? Kratom. I WOULD RATHER TAKE KRATOM THAN AN OPIATE. I accept who i am, i do not take kratom for a high, i take it because it keeps WD away and allows me a mental break from it all. A lot of people are un realistic, MOST of you will not stay clean forever, you will go back this is a brutal truth. But Kratom is here for people like US. IT IS OK to be like us, i dont chose this but it is me and i accept who i am. Kratom can be there for you and IT IS A CHOICE. Kratom is like my daily vitamin, i take it at the same time in capsule form so it fits into a healthy life style. If you are like me, choose to bring kratom in as a life style choice. Kratom over heroin ANY DAY! Again, kratom is not getting me high, it is my tool to keep me on the straight and narrow path. I DARE anyone to try and tell me what i do is wrong. 6 Months heroin FREE because of a daily capsule i take with my vitamins and i am happy and proud to be a daily kratom user. This is not the way for everyone, but for me it is my life saver.
Thank you for sharing this viewpoint. I share it as well. Kratom is a natural plant that can help with opiate withdrawal, cravings, depression, anxiety, PTSD, and other health issues. It’s much healthier to take kratom than any man-made opiate drug. I’ve known people that take it responsibly to stay off strong opiate drugs, and they say it’s a wonder plant.
I totally agree. Using kratom daily allows an individual to prevent opiate withdrawal symptoms and cravings, and they can continue to use kratom until they have reached a state of life balance, then they can continue to use it, or taper off.
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with staying on kratom long-term. It’s healthier for your body than opiate drugs, other prescription pills, alcohol, cigarettes, and even junk food.
The key is to only take enough to get a relief of symptoms, and not to use so much that you’re getting high. I’m so glad that kratom has been a lifesaver for you. I have loved this plant for years now, and seen it help countless individuals.
Take care.
I am just like you and wish I could stop this. I am a as addict. I use to use opiates every single day got addicted after a back surgery. Well I found Kratom and it’s amazing but once a month I buy Percocets and stop my kratom after my percs run out I get back on my kratom until the next month.
I hate this I cannot stop thinking of opiates, I truly thing it’s all in my head because sometimes I will just take one percent 10 mg and everything goes away I’m not talking withdraw I’m talking my depression, anxiety. I feel normal. But I also feel normal on kratom.
I truly need help to stop getting these pills once a month. They last me a week then I just use kratom till I get them again.
Does anyone have any advice?
I do have a addictive personality.
When I say I’m not going to buy anymore I get a text that some are available and there I go buying them. Sometimes they dont give me the high I use to get but just knowing I took some makes it all better.
HELP!!!
My recommendation would be to really study from this website, as I believe it has the information you need to quit opiates for good. The first step is to gain the awareness that you have a problem, and you’ve done that. Now you just need to write out on paper all the reason why you want to give up opiates. You have to have powerful “reasons why” you want to quit.
People typically don’t change until they link massive pain to using opiates, and massive pleasure to quitting opiates. It all comes down to having strong reasons why you want to quit, and then having the mindset and self-discipline to do what is necessary to detox from opiates and go through a little short-term pain to make it to freedom.
Block all the numbers in your phone of the people you buy from, they are not friends, they are there to make money.
asp, I was prescribed methadone 4 10mg tabs a day. I tapered off, had skincrawls, restless leg syndrome $ sleeplisness. I just got Kratom INDIO taps) I take 4 in the am & 4 at pm.
My question is: Is Kratom a substitute masking the withdrawals or does it take most of them away for good? I feel ok on Kratom. But, when I stop the Kratom, will the initial methadone withdrawals return. No one can seem to answer this question…. HELP?
Hi Rexx,
It varies per individual, based mainly on what type of opiates you were taking, dose, frequency, and genetic makeup. Since Methadone and Suboxone have much longer half-lives than other opiates, the withdrawal (from experience) is not as severe, but can be perceived as such because it is more prolonged, lasting 2-4 weeks opposed to a week.
If you are diligent about taking only enough Kratom to dull your withdrawal symptoms as well as make a point to taper off of it after 2-3 weeks, you should not feel withdrawal from it. I had 1-2 days of feeling lethargic and irritable when I completely stopped the Kratom, otherwise it helped me with 80% of my symptoms. It was a god send.
So in other words, it does not mask the symptoms unless you take large quantities for a long time, causing you to get ‘high’ off of it or for a long enough time for your body to become physically dependent on it!
Thanx bud, I was afraid after stopping Kratom, The initial withdrawals would return. I have never taken any drug including marijuana in my life until I hurt my back & my Dr gave me the methadone. mostly cause it’s cheap as I had no insurance. So I get the caplets, it’s called INDO. I still feel a bit skin-crawly but it’s good to know they fight the methadone withhdrawals. I’m flying from Springfield MO to Colorado. Will I be ok bringing my Kratom. I plan on buying a new unopened bag & putting it in a bag with a receipt. I need to know if they’d refuse to let me take. It’s natural but I’m worried. Can u give me any info on this?
My story is much like everyone here. I wanted to share since being here helped me a whole bunch. I started with using vicodin for a colon issue that is very painful. From there I found someone that said that oxy’s would be better with the pain. The first time I attempted to stop I was using somewhere 100mg a day. And one day decided to stop. I thought I would die. Had never stopped before. I made it to 8 days and then ran to get some. I went back using the same amount but at this time I knew this was not good. I went to the hospital and I got clean because I had to go to jail and did not want to withdraw at that place. When I got out it didn’t take long before I was at it again. Now I feel that I have jump off this cliff I am on. Well I did the taper which took several weeks. Towards the end I was taking 5mg n the morning and another at my lunch. It was worse for me at work so that is why I took them during the day. I started to use more a day when my contact said they may not have any for a couple of weeks. At that moment I decided that this was it. I was going to get off. I decided to use kratom which I had never used. My son told me about it and got it for me. Since I had tapered I took the last oxy on Friday. Saturday I felt yucky but doable. I used less than 10mgs . Sunday I took used more but I felt well. On Monday I felt the worse. Kratom helped but I was feeling like pure. Tuesday I was so surprised because I did not feel any withdrawals. Today is Wednesday and when I woke up I felt like my body weighed a ton. I stayed home and did not take Kratom until 4:00 pm. I feel okay. I think that what helped me is that I used the taper method. And of course the Kratom helped too. I don’t have that cloud feeling anymore. I will not go back. Getting off this time I feel lucky. The first time I stopped i was on day eight and felt like I did on day 1. If you can do the taper. You will still go through withdrawals but not as bad. Get your mind ready. Get your Kratom and taper down. I hope this helps.
Hello Matt….I’m very grateful for your research and program.
I didn’t however really follow it to a tee, I bought the Red Bali Kra
and I mix a heaping teaspoon in 3 oz of choc. milk. (I know ….disgusting)
But, I am good at getting foul medicines down. So I replaced my 10mg oxycodone when I felt the need, w/Kra. Got almost a pot buzz and was good for about 5 Hrs.
Then over 2 weeks or so, I started halving my Oxy and taking the Kra. in between.
Now I am down to about just 7Mg of Oxy in the morning, maybe, not always another 5 mg. around 4 with no Kra in between, and a heaping spoon of Kra about two Hrs. before bed….and I’m good to go. I just ordered Calm support (I know..a little late) but I will start taking it as soon as I get it. I expect to be off Oxy totally in 2 to 3 weeks. I have Lung Cancer and originally took the Oxy for the pain and the mental relief of having Cancer but then….there was no more pain and I accept the Cancer diag. plus I have had no evidence of Cancer for almost 2 Yrs. So………………Now I have been addicted to Oxy for 2 Yrs. 10Mg. every 4 to 5 Hrs. I have an addictive personality anyway and this sure fed into it!
Thank God and Kra., I am almost clean.
Keep up the great work and thanks!
Regards, Jack
Hi Jack,
Thanks for sharing a bit of your story on how things are going for you. Many individuals customize this protocol and it works quite well in many different forms.
Sounds like your protocol you’re using is a great one! Keep up the great work and I wish you the best on your journey. You are almost clean and I can’t wait for you to achieve this major goal!
I find that taking my Opiates and slowly taper at the same time as kRATOM there is not detox. After about 7 days of both and then KRATO!M only for another 7 days and that’s it no more addition. I have been off my meds with no after affects for a long while. This is what worked for me.
That is wonderful news!!! Thanks for sharing this and congrats on your success using kratom to get off opiates!!!
I desperately need help. I have been going regularly to my pain management dr. (same dr.) for years and we had a very good relationship. The trust between us was awesome. Fast forward to the last few months. He moved back east to have his family/children be close to grandparents and even though my loss is tremendous I fully understand his need.
He practiced in an office setting with another pain management dr. that has a personality of a clam. I only had to deal with him 1 to 2 times over the span of several years I was with this office.
I have been hospitalized A LOT since January of this year due to systemic infections. January’s admit resulted in a 73 day stay. May’s admission was a 45+ day stay. Suffice to say I missed my refill appts. with the lone Dr. that I didn’t care for at my old pain clinic and I called to let the office know ahead of time why ( that i was in the hospital)_ ….was told not to worry…when you get out give us a call and we will get you taken care of. I didn’t worry about it as my old dr. would do the same thing and I never had any issues…. boy was I wrong!!!
Discharging hospital dr. gave me 3 small scripts for less than 2 weeks coverage of Dilaudid 4 mg. , Oxycontin 10 mg. BID , and Hydrocodone 5-325. My usual pain meds I got from my pain dr. were Dilaudid 4 mg. and I could take every 4 hours as needed and Hydro 10-325 every 6 hours.
My physical issues are herniated/ruptured disks mid and lower back – right knee joint has fully collapsed and needed a total knee replacement over 1 yr. ago but I can’t get it done til I clear up the infection issues – left foot and heel toasted had MRI and had large quantities of fluid in the heel where there is no reason for it to be there, infarcts in several of the bones along with marked degeneration- I use a walker for stumbling about in the house and a wheelchair when going elsewhere because the pain level trying to walk dissolves me into tears it is that bad. I am an adrenal pt. on top of all this mess going on 6 plus years….6 plus years of having to take steroids (prednisone) to stay alive because i have NO ADRENAL function thanks to a PA that gave me the wrong medication 6 yrs. ago following my cervical neck fusion and it killed off ALL of my adrenal function. Zero zip, as in NO adrenal function. Prior to this surgery just to stabilize and keep from having permanent nerve damage ( old auto accident several years ago) I was 150ish lbs. active as all get out – NO physical maladies , might go to the dr. once a year …I was never sick…. fast forward to 6 years of steroids…gained 140 lbs…steroid induced diabetes injection controlled, NO immune system hence the infections that I can get constantly…my May admit found me with a white count of 28,900 – I was in ICU I was that sick.
Sorry for the length of this post but I have some serious issues…I have never abused my pain meds as in never ever… I take them as prescribed…. get out of the hospital and I called to see the pain mgt. dr. as I have always done..only to be told that HE won’t see me because I filled scripts from another dr. and I’m like WTF??? They only wrote them for a week or so to get me over to getting IN to my pain mgt. dr. and I told them that. Then I was told he would request my hospital records and it would easily be 2-3 weeks before I could see him…. that was on July 3rd….I ran out of the small holdover scripts written on July 2nd….as in nothing…. I hadn’t filled the Oxycontin script though because I couldnt afford the 250.00 price tag….the dr. told me that I would have to see if an ER , Urgent Care or my family dr. would write for me in the interim,
Now this jackwad KNOWS I have been in his office setting for years so I am a known patient…he also knows that I literally have NO pain meds and stopped them basically cold turkey as I ran out when I had been told by his office staff ‘no problem we will get you taken care of”….
well it is a HUGE problem….I am hurting so badly that my husband couldn’t stand seeing me in such pain that he scraped the funds up and filled the Oxycontin on July 6th. I live in a split level house with a ton of stairs….to get out of my house and to the car is well over 150 ft. and 24 stairs…most with no handrails…. I am in so much pain it hurts to move….my knee is screaming…my foot is throbbing….I feel like someone is beating me with a ball bat…and I can barely get to the car. I did as I was told….summoned up all my energy and drug myself out of the house 4 times this week to only be told by the ER, Urgent Care and family dr. that they won’t write for me even though I can bring them proof that I am only asking for what I had been taking for a long time… went out AGAIN to the pain clinic …easier to put you off on the phone harder in person….to NOW be told that he won’t see me til I am out of the Oxycontin…. it is 10 mg. twice a day and it does nothing for my pain…I might as well be eating PEZ candies….he didn’t use that as his excuse on July 2nd, July 3rd and July 5th when my husband and I were calling his office…that is the only reason my husband filled the Oxy script on July 6th !!! Today he flip flopped and said he won’t see me til I am done with this Oxy even though I told him I would go home get the balance of the script and give it to him..just give me the meds that work for me and are less potent than the Oxy…..no go…
I want to try Kratom and I can get it locally….I cannot deal with this pain…..
SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME !!!
I understand that you seem to have many health issues (I thought I had a lot), but I’m wondering if this is some higher power telling you to fight through this pain and rise above it. It’s amazing how powerful the human mind is, the old saying “mind over matter” is truly powerful. Maybe use this time to stop all the pain meds and try even the smallest amount of physical exercise to get your natural pain killers (your own endorphins) to help with your pain. The only reason I’m suggesting this is I finally decided to get this monkey off my back. I have a very painful autoimmune disease, but I believe with all my might, that I can “will” this disease away, but before I can do that, I had to stop all this pain medication. I was taking the Fentanyl patch 75mcg every 2 days and 60mg oxy a day. Went to my doc last week and asked him not to refill my patches because I weaned myself off. He was shocked but said if I feel okay, then to keep doing what I’m doing. I’m now in the process of kicking the oxy because I used to be a runner and I’m going to RUN again if it’s the last thing I do. These drugs have ruined some of my most precious relationships, some great jobs and even led me to losing my home. So, I’ve decided that I am going to climb my way back to the top inch by inch but I am going to do it. I’m tired of having a pity party for myself, I’m alone because I pushed everyone that was important to me away so I could be alone with my meds and that warm comforting feeling they gave me. Count your blessings that you have a husband to coach you and cheer you on. Ask him to help you to be strong. Use this opportunity to quit cold turkey with the help of these natural remedies. If I can do this after being on my meds for a decade, anyone can! I used the Calm Support, DL-Phenylalanine, Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C, Benadryl (all purchased from Amazon) and a ton of water each day. And truthfully, I had two “really bad” days of restless leg and agitation and anxiety, the rest of the days were manageable. We as humans are built to be resilient beings, you can do this, you can transform your life and I believe you can “will” away some of your medical problems by not focusing on them and following an exercise program and good nutrition and the above mentioned supplements! Good luck and God bless!
I have been saying the same thing for years. Humans are extremely adaptable and resilient. Mind over matter. What we choose to believe will manifest in our lives. There is power in belief or faith if you will. That being said I also understand the struggle. I have chronic pain and severe ptsd and I am kicking an opiate addiction. I know however without a shadow of a doubt that I will heal and live a healthy happy life with out medication or addiction. I am starting Kratom tomorrow for the first time. With the spirit healing and self control I plan to later end my use of Kratom and all other medications. Think and believe positive. Imagine yourself whole and healed. Also, prayer works wonders. You are in my thoughts and prayers also.
You got this. You can heal. It all starts with your mind
Also what is calm support?
best method for taking kratom powder i’ve found –
use hot water from the faucet, doesn’t have to be boiling hot but say the hottest your faucet gets or close to that if that’s too warm to drink. dump your powder into this hot water and make sure the powder is evenly distributed across the top. let it sit for a few seconds and then pick the glass up and tap it on the table. it will start to fall down into the water and after another moment you can give it a swirl. then give it a few more swirls and it becomes an extremely easy solution to drink and chase with plain water. ‘toss and wash’ method is kind of poor in my opinion, a lot gets stuck in your mouth and very easy to get dry clumps, gross. this is like doing a shot of tea. works best in a tall glass. hope this helps someone!
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
So I was totally unsure of kratom but let me tell you, i am now 4 days of opiates after 4 years. I would never have made it this far without. Please, for the love of God, if you have to come off opiates you have to try this… YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT!!!
Matt – Nice article, but you really should update it to remove what you said about taking only kratom for 7-14 days. Pretty much everywhere else I’ve read, it says take kratom for 5-7 days.
I’m saying this because I switched to kratom after a long taper off norco and morphine. I stopped taking kratom after 14 days and my withdrawal symtoms have been bad enough that I’m thinking that I should have just stuck with the taper. RLS and anxiety have been horrible.
I wish I could take the calm support stuff, but I can’t due to sensitivities that I have to what’s in it.
Hi Matt, I found the information here extremely helpful. I’ve got all items on your list & getting ready to start detoxing with Kratum & co. tomorrow. I was just wondering how long I should wait after I do my last dose (of heroin) before I start the Kratum. Should I wait for signs of withdrawal or prior to them. Like how many hours should I wait? Also I tried but failed miserably trying to wean down. Been doing approx $100. say (5 doses/caps), so I plan on starting at 8 gramscif Red Bali. I am so looking forward to a life without opiates. I was in methadone for years but a few months ago I relapsed after I lost my Methadone script-for having a dirty UA, ( dirty with Soma of all things).
Thank you so much for all the great information!
Francie
I’m on day 3 of kratom 10 grams 3 times daily and day 4 of no suboxone. I was on hydrocodone/oxycodone/methadone however many I could get daily for a while and tapered my self to 1/64 of a 8mg strip of suboxone 3 times daily for about 3 months and messed up and went to a quarter every other day for about a week and heard about kratom. I’m wondering if taking kratom to get off suboxone is like taking hydrocodone to get off oxycodone or like when I used suboxone to get off of painkillers. for me in the past once I lowered myself down on the suboxone if I could get to day 5 or 6 clean then no more withdrawls. now that I’m using the kratom if I get to day 5 or 6 and stop taking kratom will it be like the past and no w/d or what should I be expecting
I take 4-5 #5’s perks a day, depending on the day. anyways so ready to get off these for good! I do have Fibromyalgia and sle , but these pills are running my life. I want off the merry -go- round. Of running out, where to get them etc.
I tried to post last night, i apologize I hit send to soon before I edited and finished! Anyways I just took my last one 1/2 hour ago, so that was 5 already today. I guess my question would be, how long before I can take the Kratom ? After a pain pill.(and like does the amount mater)
I bought some Maeng Da in powder form. I am scared to death of the withdraws . I have severe panic attacks, so of course my mind makes it worse! I am so ready and want to stay off these pills for GOOD! This site was such a blessing to find. It is wonderful and I am loving the success stories!
Hi Marie,
Congrats on being done with oxycodone! I’m very excited for you! And with kratom there is no need to worry about timing. If you were to take burprenorphine, the main ingredient in Suboxone and Subutex, you would have to carefully wait until the right time to take it after your last oxycodone pill.
However, kratom will not put a person into precipitated withdrawal ever. If it were me, I would take kratom as soon you feel the effects of the pill have gone away. I’m so happy to hear that you have enjoyed this site. 🙂
Hello, I have a large opiate habit, lets call it huge. I have subutex and suboxone. i also have Kratom. I have one week off work, seven days. My question is can I use kratom and subutex to get off opiates. I understand the risks of sub, I’ve been on it before. i also have loperamide. and some other vitamins. Thanks for your help. AW
When does that week off work begin? I need to know that to be able to respond to your question in the best way possible.
I am on suboxone and tapered down to about .25-.35mgs and my last dose is this friday. I been on the suboxone for 4 months (highest dose being 4mgs for 1 month)…prior i was on methadone for 5 years. I am taking 10 days off work, i am hoping that will be enough time to get through the worst. I have clonidine from doctor and flexeril. I also have kratom…but my fear is that it will just hold off on the withdrawals. If i take it just once or twice during those 10 days for sleep or just one day if i feel like i need a break, would it set me back in my withdrawal?
Sorry I posted this in a reply1st because I’m on my cell phone and didn’t realize the comment section was 10 mins of finger swiping to the bottom.
Hi, i’ve been dabbling in opiates for the last 20 years and has become a problem for the last 10. I’ve tried just about every method from cold turkey to ibogaine. Last time I detoxed was around June 2016. My habit was about 12-20 (30mg) oxy daily. I jumped to Subutex, tapered from 8mg daily to .25mg (not fun… anxiety no sleep etc…) I read about Kratom for years and never tried it until then. OMG. I bought a little packet from the corner store which had about 20 or so capsule in there. I thought each one was 6mg… figured out later The whole packet equaled 6mg. I think I Took four capsules and it definitely took the edge off and gave me a little more energy. I did some more research and then ordered a couple ounces off of the Internet. I took about 8mg 2x daily and felt absolutely amazing. I had energy, no aniety and could sleep. Only real downfall is it taste like the inside of a hobos pocket. I suggest poring a half glass of chocolate milk (I use chocolate almond milk), dump the Kratom on top and mix it, plug your nose, down it and then rinse your mouth. Don’t put the Kratom in the glass first because it sticks to the bottom. Anyway…. did that till October and then relapsed. Ive been taking about 30-36 (30mg) oxy daily for about 4-5 months now. I’m on the 3rd week of my 6 week taper plan and I’m down to 3 (30mg) a day. I take 3-6mg of Kratom when the anxiety and other w/d symptoms get too bad. My plan it to taper off the oxy onto Kratom and I want to get the Probufine implant.
I was woundering if you have to wait the 24 hours (or till withdrawal starts kicking in) to take Subutex if you’re currently using Kratom…. like you have to do with Oxy? I don’t want to throw myself into precipitated withdrawal like I’ve done in the past from taking Subutex too soon after oxy.
Side note…. Kratom is habit forming and if on it too long can cause some pretty nasty withdrawal (from what I hear). So be careful and have a taper plan to get off the Kratom.
Ohhhh I also read that the gov is allowing testing of Kratom to be synthesized in to pain medication.
Thanks for writing all this amazing info. Best one I’ve read in a while. 🙂
Hi Midas,
You said you tried ibogaine? Why didn’t it work for you? I’ve been thinking about an ibogaine retreat and don’t want to spend the money if it does not work!
Kerry.
Dear Mr. Finch,
Thank you soooo… much for this page! You helped me more than you’ll ever know! 10 years on Oxycodone & OxyContin (210mg – Up to 250mg per day) due to a “botched” gallbladder removal surgery. To make things worse… the biopsy of the gallbladder that was removed showed it was completely healthy and that I did not have gallstones like the surgeon had previously informed me! I was ready to get my life back and stop taking the pills… I was about to go on Suboxone until a friend of a friend told me about Kratom. I came across your page in withdrawal mode (from tapering off of 120mg of OxyContin for one week, but taking 90mg of Oxycodone) while researching Kratom! I read through your articles, one after another, and some I even read two or three times! I followed your regimen using Kratom and Calm Support! I have to say thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been free from the pills for 7 days and went back to work on day 6! I am still following your regimen and am so thankful for your site! I truly appreciate all of your hard work! Thank you! 😬
I’m so glad this page helped!!! Awesome! Thanks for the feedback and I’m so proud of you for getting off that high dose of oxy. Thanks for sharing your success story. Well done! You rock!!! 🙂
P.S. I erased your full name like you asked on the other comment and deleted that comment. So you’re good to go. 🙂
Can I take a Krato, 4 hours after taking a perk #5 , plan to stop taking pain meds amymore
Yes that shouldn’t ever post a problem.
I’m trying to get off of a 40 to 50 mg. Roxi habit, I’m really interested in Kradom, do I have to be completely off Roxi’s before I begin the Kratom and how much do you suggest I take and what kind, I have severe depression and I take an antidepressant called Viibryd- 40mg.s a day, Please help me I’ve tried all kinds of ‘home remedies” to no avail! I really appreciate any help you can give me.
Hi Kathy, I had a 90mg habit of Oxytocin. The best Kratom for this is Maeg Da Red. I would start of with a Full tablespoon of it on a empty stomach with some Grapefruit juice. Wait 45 minutes to see how you feel and if your not feeling better take another teaspoonful. Everybody is different on how much Kratom is good for them so you have to play around with to find the right dose for you. Now if after taking it and you light headed and nauseous you have taking to much. If this happens drinks lots of water and try to relax. You might vomit, but you will be fine.
I’m also on depressant. I take Lexapro. The Kratom does not affect my medicine.
Kratom also helps with pain, depression and anxiety.
Plus if you read all of Matt’s information on ‘How to use Kratom for opiate withdrawals’ it would really give you a step by step Tutorial.
Best of luck to you
God Bless
Hi, and thank you for the info, now…should I try this while I’m tapering or should I do it CT, I’m so nervous, I’ve been trying to taper off but the depression kicks in big time and I go off track again! But I’m tired of this merry go round and I want OFF it! Thanks for any help you can give me. 🙂
You’re truly welcome. It is not a good idea to do kratom and opiates together. Not saying you can’t but I feel you should not. I took Kratom the very first day I stopped taking my oxy. I seriously had no withdrawals symptoms at all.
Also kratom truly helps with depression.
I have very bad depression, anxiety and chronic insomnia. Kratom has help me through all this.
But remember everybody is different and with kratom you need to play with to find which strain works for you and how much you need to take the withdrawals away. But also you need to truly have that mind set that you really and truly our ready to get off of opiates.
My friend was tapering off of 120mg of oxy and he used Kratom with the oxy as his daily dose got lower. He would take a half of teaspoon each time the withdrawals hit him. He said it made it easier for him.
So I guess some people do kratom while there tapering.
Like I said everybody is different. So just be careful okay.
I hope to hear back from you.
God Bless you
Best of luck.
i found that it does interfere with certain medcines but it surehelped me kick the opiates
I have been an opiate user since 2003. It started with a bottle of 20 5mg Oxy’s that lasted over 4 years. Then I re-injured my back and I naively convinced my Orthopedic surgeon I needed a higher dose. I bumped up to 20mg oxy’s twice a day. That had me knocked on my ass all day but I liked it. Not only was my pain gone but I felt better than I ever had. I have never done anything “bad” in my life. No drugs, I don’t drink, I don’t smoke. I was an athlete. I had straight A’s. One of my idiot roomates dared me to snort one, as at the time Oxy was getting a lot of press for people abusing it. I took him up. I freaking loved it. That’s when it all started to go down hill. Fast forward to today. I have climbed the ladder of opiate potency to the very top (at least what I think is the very top, I may be wrong, as I’ve never tried heroin) I am now prescribed 150 mcg Fentanyl patch every 2 days. I of course don’t use as directed. I cut them up and put them under my tongue. That being said I don’t go over my daily amount, and I’ve never purchased drugs illegally. Just a long stream of doctors willing to give me drugs. I am now 34, married, a 6 yr old and a baby due in April. I want to get off of this crap so badly. I can request to try and taper down, methadone, suboxone. I k now I can’t do cold turkey. Last year I was traveling back home with my family from vacation. I had only brought enough of my medicine to last me the exact amount of time I was goign to be away from home. (bad idea) As the universe will do, it screwed me. Flights were delayed, I didn’t get home until abotu 12 hours past scheduled time. I was so sick that I could barely move. On the last flight I took about 15 gravol (dramamine) in Canada to knock myself out. I was in so much pain and so sick. If I didn’t have more meds at home I would have done something really stupid to make the pain stop. Long story short is this. i want to believe so badly that the kratom will work for me. Given the extremely high dose I’m on how much would I need to start with? I was going to make capsules out of the powder when it comes. does this seem like a good idea? Any comments or help is greatly appreciated
Hi Charlie, Glad to hear your ready to try Kratom. Making capsules is fine but you need a weight the amount your putting in each capsule. Reason is you can get sick taking to much Kratom. Everybody is different some people do good in low doses for opiate withdrawal and some need higher doses.
I use a level teaspoon full three times a day and it has worked wonders for me. I do toss and wash, which is just putting the kratom powder on a teaspoon and putting it in my mouth then drinking something sweet to wash it down with.
There are many ways to take kratom, just google it..
I wish you the best of luck also Kratom will help but you also have to have the mind set that you truly want to stop using opiates.
Good luck Charlie.
I have 48 years of addiction with brief periods of clean time. Kratom is an awesome thing and I wish I knew about it years ago.
Try NA meetings to compliment the Kratom and don’t let them tell you using Kratom isn’t doing it naturally. It’s about YOU getting and staying clean.
Hi Irv,
Kratom has been awesome for sure, however I recently found it is increasing my already hypertensive blood pressure by a full 20 points ( both diastolic and systolic) …or it is interfering with the ability of my BP meds to do their job…i confirmed this by stopping it for a few days…and it dropped and held. The worst part is now my Renal doctor is refusing to treat me because of the Kratom… and I guess he has a point. I was thinking it might be the stimulating aspect of kratom, but I only use the slow strains (reds)…but it still may raise BP. Here is an area where I feel the FDA study may shed some light. Frankly, I feel this forces me to discontinue Kratom and go back on opiates. Its just ludicrous to live in a hypertensive crisis area of 200/130 BP all the time, just more or less waiting to have a major stroke or heart attack! I was so bummed when I confirmed this. My Specialty Doc considers me a rogue patient now and gives me the respect of a fucking stray dog. Fucking punk kid Doc, with a massive ego well beyond his 20 something years! He told me I need a kidney biopsy, but no hospital will touch me with BP that high. Told me to call him when I wake the fuck up and throw that herbal shit in the garbage! Every young Doctor I have has seemed to have a great prejudice against older people. All the older Doctors are taken/booked, impossible to transfer. Many are ‘cash’ only…Yes , one of the privileges in living in PA ( a state with older people)…we have concierge and VIP service for the well-to-do and almost no one accepts Medicare…they just plain ole ‘OPT-OUT’. I’ve learned to despise the medical community sadly, when I need them the most. But this isn’t the medicine our generation grew up with…this is fee for service. All doctors look at your insurance before deciding how long to spend with you…If its Medicare, its 5 minutes and it better not be complex. Appointments routinely are arranged some 4 to 6 months ahead of time due to demand. Its no wonder people would rather just die. Hope you’re not dealing with any of these juggernauts, Irv.
Lastly, NA isn’t my thing, but might work for some but NA won’t approve
of kratom, suboxone, or methadone use which i find to be pretty stiff. There are other superior programs to Bill W’s ancient mentality and incidious 12 step programs that have a 5% success rating…yeah…GO BILL !!! lol, damn!…. so I would advise seaking these new programs out in your area. You won’t catch me dead at any AA/NA program, although you may catch me dead any day now if I don’t change what I am doing….Peace….
Fred
You are so right about having Medicare for your insurance. I. I’m going through the same thing, Doctor’s out here in Oregon suck especially if you have Medicare or any government insurance.
I do Thank God for Kratom because I am finally able to be pain free and Opiate Free. I finally got my life back.
Also I’m truly sorry that Kratom rises your blood pressure, but Kratom effects every body differently. Because I have high blood pressure and I’m on blood pressure medication and I have no problem.
I take 3-4 teaspoon full three times a day.
Best of luck to you.
Wow Fred! I empathize 100%. It’s
Not much diff here in Klamath Falls, Oregon. A lot of homeless so the wait is long and there’s very few docs who have openings. My Medicare costs a fricken fortune and honestly! I gave up. I have prostate issues, I “think” I got rid of hep-c but I can’t afford the blood test (my 20%) to verify. I’ve been on Methadone maint for 15 years and the ONLY reason I’m slowly detoxing is I now have to drive 500 miles round trip once a
Month. I have a lot of Kratom in case our effed Gov screws me in that issue. I’d stay on it till death if I could because it works for me.
I had no idea Kratom could increase BP. I do take lisinopril and I have 30 days left. I have to find someone to write it. Doctors, all of them hate herbals. I don’t get it except doctors get kick backs for writing RX. Once again the doctors oath to help people is bullshit eh? I’m sorry! Don’t feel alone if it’s any help. I’ll be 64 in March, I worked literally 50 years and I work 3-4 hrs a day now. The Gov doesn’t care if you bought the White House. We’re just old POS to them and they would be happier if we were dead. I voted
For Trump because he said he would fix Medicare and push up SS. We shall see!
God Bless you my brother.
I want to feel better and get off opiates
Try Kratom it really does help with pain and opiate withdrawal.
Matt,
Can you post a link to your ‘getting off kratom video’ and recommendations?
Thanks
I sure can Fred. You got it!
Kratom Home Detox Webinar>>
Hi Matt, I am 31 and have been in cronic pain from a severe car accident 11 years ago. In the last decade I have tried over 37 different medications, everything from morphine to diladid, I even get 14 nerve block needles every month. I have been on a fast acting 20mg oxy, 120mg per day, plus 1200mg of gabapentin for the last 3 years now. I became so physically dependant that the mental and physical repercussions were horrific and the withdrawal seemed impossible!! I honestly thought that I would never be rid of this demon. After repeatedly asking my doctor to help ween me off and him basically refusing stating that “this is the first thing that’s worked a little bit, let’s not change it now”. I became so frustrated that 3 days ago I decided to quit cold turkey on my own, with my mom’s help. She’s been my rock. But after much research I finally came across ur page. I just took my first drink of kratom and already I am feeling at least 70% better!! You are a lifesaver Mister!! And I can’t understand why more people aren’t being offered this help and information. I’ll definitely spread the word. Thank you so much!!!!
The reason more people aren’t offered Kratom is Simple. Big Pharma. They, the Govt and the world don’t care about anyone’s suffering. They do care about money and that’s ALL!
I wish you the best of luck Sir.
Hey Matt, thank you so much for this guide! Someone told me about kratom to get off heroin, and I happened to come across your article. This stuff is no joke! 15 minutes after I took it, I was already feeling better. Today is day three and I haven’t felt sick at all, aside from a little runny nose. Cravings are gone, all the muscle spasms and pain are gone! No need for subutex or suboxone! I have some Maeng Da and Bali and the only side effect I’ve had from the Maeng Da is a little jittery like drinking too much coffee (I did take quite a lot of it – probably 20g). Please keep getting the word out there about kratom. And thank you again!
David Kratom is amazing, can I ask which strain your taking?
Because if your doing the Maeg Da White strain that is the one that is mostly for energy and taking in large amounts will make you jitter. If you have any questions feel free to ask me I Have studied everything possible about Kratom and there strains. It also helped me get off Opiates.
Best of luck to you and keep up the good work.
Hi Castle
Just perusing through the comments moments and saw that you have done your homework so I’m going to ask you what I should do, I’m in a complicated situation. Before I waste my time telling you my current situation I’m going to send this and hope for a response.
Thank you
You are so welcome for this guide! Glad you felt better after just 15 minutes WOW!!! I feel the same way about kratom. It is a lifesaver and it’s natural…powerful…affordable…just the bomb. Thanks for the feedback and dropping a comment. Wish you the best!
will the red vein bali work for withdrawals? The top extracts site is out of the classic red bali 🙁
I did just order a 30 day supply of calm support 🙂
Good for you!! Congrats!! 🙂
What is calm support and where can I find it?
Yes!! All kratom works for withdrawal, and especially any strain that is red.
Hey I am on day seven off of Suboxone. I have used kratom with withdrawal. The six day was a big difference in symptoms I did not consume kratom instead I used gabapentin. Day 7 my headache is worse,dirreah kicked in and I feel worse than day 6. I’m curious if I dose with kratom again is it going to prolong my Suboxone withdrawl? I cannot find info about this anywhere.
Hi Sara,
Whenever you use kratom that means you still have an opioid in your system, however, from most people’s experience, this natural opioid plant “soothes” the receptors and allows a smoother transition from pharmaceutical opioids. Gabapentin is actually my favorite med for withdrawal and I encourage you to read this article on it:
How To Use Gabapentin For Opiate Withdrawal>>
So to sum things up…yes, kratom occupies the receptors but taken in low doses, then tapered off, most people say it is much easier than coming straight off stronger opioids. Especially when they use nutrition, supplements, diet, etc.
Matt, can you please tell me how to wean off of kratom, I used it to get off of opiates now if I don’t use it my whole body aches I’m using one ounce every three days I take three leveled teaspoos a day. Please help
I sure can. When it was supposed to become illegal for the entire U.S. in September, I prepared by making a free video to help people come off kratom. Luckily kratom is still legal in most states and cities. Here is the free webinar for you and anyone else who wishes to check it out:
Free Kratom Home Detox Webinar>>
Please let me know if you have any questions. I’m happy to help.
Is there a way to wean off it? Instead of using another remedy?
Yes you just taper. Tapering is systemically lowering your dosage over a period of time. For instance, one could take 6 grams three times a day for a week, then 4 grams 3 times daily for a week, then 2 grams, etc.
There are many ways to taper, fast, medium, and slow. The best way to reduce symptoms is to taper slowly, so your body has time to adjust to the lower dosages.
I have been on suboxone 8mg/2mg for approximately 5 months, and have tried to quit and taper several times. There was no “major” withdrawal…however the exhaustion that I experienced was horrible. Thus…I am back on 1 strip of the 8mg/2mg a day. Today I looked up the taper chart and started taking 1/2 of the strip. According to the taper chart, I will be tapering for approximately 50 days. I just really want to be done with this. It is more than a monkey on my back. However, even though the only withdrawal, thus far that I have experienced, is the exhaustion. I can’t be exhausted on a daily basis because I have 2 children, a husband a home and I run a small business and HAVE to work every day…7 days a week. I have been trying to research kratcom for several months now, and then stumbled across this forum. As far as I can tell, kratcom is still legal in Pennsylvania, but I cannot find it. Any suggestions on where to go? I have been fighting the addiction battle for over 10 years…due to prescription drugs, and then fell into the heroin epidemic for a very short time, and I DON’T want to turn back now!! I have come too far!! Scared, but really want all of this to be nothing more than a really bad memory. Our financial situation is diminishing for a lot of reasons…mainly because before getting on suboxone…last summer I spent $6000.00 on heroin…in less than 2 months. I am really scared and just want to be done!! Please help….I am almost half way there….and I want to finish this before we get too far into the new year. THANK YOU!
I prefer TopExtracts.com. You order it online and it ships discretely to your home quickly.
I don’t know what’s going on with me…. I was addicted to tianeptine for two years in large amounts. The WD was so scary and unbearable I thought I’d be on it forever. However I managed to taper off of it about a week and a half ago. I did this with gabapentin and around day 4 or 5 off of Tianeptine my Kratom came in. I was still having mental and some mild physical WD side effects from the Tianeptine and so I took a spoonful of Kratom and felt finally NORMAL after weeks of tapering and quitting Tianeptine. I have taken a spoonful or two every day since getting it (not even a week) only when I feel RLS or anxiety. Now at a week and a half of Tianeptine (which has a short half life) I notice I am still experiencing WD symptoms (sneezing, RLS, muscle aches, anxiety, etc.) but I noticed after I take Kratom they go away. My WD symptoms seem to be worsening instead of getting better, especially when I try to not take Kratom…. I think now that the WD symptoms are from Kratom as the Tianeptine WD symptoms should be gone due to its short half life… please tell me I didn’t just trade one WD for another?! I have barely been taking much at all and for such a short time. But I can’t seem to go a full day without it or I’ll be in WD… is it residual Tianeptine WD since I took it for so long or am I creating a new problem? If so I’d like to jump off Kratom as quickly as possible as I already know the longer you take something the worse it gets. Any ideas? Any recommendation for getting of Kratom?
Matt made a video on how to get off of kratom. But I truly feel your not withdrawing from the kratom, especially the short time you been taking it. Withdrawal can last for weeks..
What will happen if you only start taking CalmSupport 5 days before coming off Suboxone, but you still take Kratom? Will you elaborate with more details? You say it’s VERY IMPORTANT to take seven days before coming off. Do you have any idea what a few days difference could make in the benefits you receive from this supplement? I just purchased CalmSupport for my friend who only has a five day supply left. I am eager to find out what the difference will be for him. Opiate addiction sounds horrible, and I can only imagine what all of you are going through. I hate to see someone go through this, and I would especially hate to see my friend not succeed in kicking this crap.
Not to burst your bubble but kicking it is actually the easy part. It’s staying clean. I am not proud but I’ve been in this nightmare 48 years. I’ve kicked so many times I’ve lost count. It’s never easy but in comparison a week to a month of sick is nothing compared to a lifetime of battling a monster always nawing at you. Good luck.
Irv, so true!
I got off everything using Suboxone which was literally hell to discontinue, but my pain came back in droves and even worse, I was marginally functional both mentally and physically, and 5 months later I went back on Percocet. It did start causing me problems even at a relatively low dose taken as directed so I left the pain practice for Kratom. Now, however, I am stuck on Kratom. I do need pain relief, however, and it does help my anxiety and depression so I’m going to try not to look at this so much as a dependence and more so as a medicine for my ailments ( as Mary suggested). I just hate dependency on anything. But , as you say, it seems we are forever vulnerable to relapse. With Kratom, however, I never think or crave opiates. I read somewhere that this has to do with its greater activity at the delta receptor than most synthetics which are primarily at the mu receptor.
Hope you’re making progress, Irv. Keep us updated and wishing you all the best!
iit definantily works but recommend capsuls..the powder s too nasty..they come in 1 gram caps..so its easy..m on oxy an fentanyl
Kratomm seriously is the best, I used it for two weeks and had absolutely no opiate withdrawals at all. I used miag da red and green Bali. I recommend this to anyone who is truly trying to get off opiates.
Did you feel any withdrawl from the kratom, how much did you dose and how often? And how long?
Green Bali is GREAT for right before bedtime. I don’t get the RLS symptoms and most times I can sleep 6-8 hours, when I use that one before bed. I use the Maeng Da for daytime, which tames down the symptoms, like sweating, nausea, eye watering, nose running, yawning, involuntary stretching, etc, while providing a little bit if energy. I am a 40 year old chronic pain patient with a myriad of painful diagnoses. I have been on pain medication for 7 years and am now going through a forced taper. Not that I don’t want to get away from the ball and chain of pain medication, I just didn’t know what I was going to do, having to live in severe pain after my taper is done. I began to think maybe it was better for me not to be here at all, if this was all life had in store for me. I have kids and a spouse. Some of my chronic pain issues prevent me from exercise, because my feet swell so badly that I can’t walk and they are EXCRUCIATINGLY painful. I also have had surgery on both of my knees because I have a connective tissue disorder. So yeah, exercise is out for me, because of the swelling (Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, no cure) and the risk of spontaneously blowing a ligament from Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. This is in addition to Degenerative Disc Disease (lumbar and cervical), fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis throughout my body and much, much more. I thought that the best course of action was to end my pain myself. I had heard of KRATOM before, but I was highly skeptical of it and thought it was something that people only used to get high on. Then I did some research into it. After much debate, I decided it was better to try it, having nothing to lose, than to continue thinking the way that I was. KRATOM LITERALLY SAVED MY LIFE. I hated the physical dependency. I hated the withdrawals, even without having the mental dependency to the pain medications. I had literally tried every other single therapy that was out there (like the chiropractor and physical therapy) before I went on the medications because I didn’t want to be on another medication. I did not, at the time I agreed to try it, realize how much of a burden the medications would become. I just wanted relief from being in severe pain, day in, day out. I got relief from the medications…..and the monster that physical dependency is. Now I am told to take OTC meds, some of which I can’t take and all of which provided no relief. I was literally at the end of my proverbial rope and in dire physical straits when I first tried KRATOM. The Maeng Da and the Green Bali are working wonders for me, which is why I replied to your comment, making a short story long I guess. I hope you don’t mind me telling my personal story in my reply as well. I do not mean to take away from your story, I was just excited when I saw that someone uses the same combo as me,lol! I know you can develop a KRATOM dependency also. I do use it daily, but I also take 3-4 days off from using it every couple of weeks. It works for my pain. It has helped me through the withdrawal that I am going through on my taper (I take oxycodone). I take the Maeng Da during the day, after I take the meds and when I start to feel the twinges of withdrawal from them no longer actively doing anything and the Green Bali at night, before I go to bed. It does wonders for me. I actually sleep. Something I haven’t done in a long time. Now I hear that there is talk if banning KRATOM based on it being present in the system of people that have used it with other drugs as well, in an OD. I think that’s WRONG!! I have read the stories of multiple people here and I see how much good it is doing for you all. I can attest to what it has done for me. And now they want to take it away, which means my last hope of pain control goes with it. I know a lot of people are saying “mind over matter” but when the more you do, your body (my hands also have the swelling issue) gets physically worse the more you do, what’s the solution? Anyway, I only meant to say that I am excited to see someone else having success with what I did. I hope I did not offend you by also posting my personal story on my reply to you and if I did, I apologize. I did not intend to take away what you had said, only add to it.
Thank you for sharing your story CPP. Hope your taper continues to go well.
I used kratom to kick opiates and it worked great. I would recommend a more potent extract or liquid to get the job done, but i had a bad heroin addiction and a pretty high tolerance. Thanks for the post, kratom helps save lives.
I am seriously considering purchasing kraton but need to no if you ship to canada
I have Type 2 diabetes and take insulin after meals.
Is there any conflict there?
I am also on Opdivo, an immune boosting cancer treatment every other week…(it was the Cancer that got me started on oxycodone)….any conflict there?
Jack,
You will have to ask your Healthcare provider about this.
~Mary
Recovery Specialist
Glad Kratom is back but it’s only for 35 days or so.
Over 2 years ago I came off of High dose oxycodone (180mg/daily) with 100mcg fentanyl patch, using Suboxone and amino acid therapy. After several years, I reached a point in my pain management where the Opioids were simply not working anymore and causing me severe panic attacks and cognitive dysfunction. I told my doctor I wanted off. He really was against me coming off , but gave me 32 mg Suboxone to take daily (after the appropriate waiting period since last opiate dose). I did as directed and immediately had severe anxiety. I went back to him and said, I feel like I’m losing my mind. He said he never had a patient in his over 30 years of practicing pain management that had the symptoms I claimed and that Suboxone did not work for. Now treating me as though I was a Leper, he suggested i go to Detox/Rehab or go back on my other pain meds. Disgusted, I walked away from the practice. Did my own research, dropped the dose to 6 mg daily immediately, which became 4 mg/daily in a month ..then 2, then 1, then jumped after 9 months.
During that time I saw a Psychiatrist who Rx’d me XANAX XR (extended release) for my chronic anxiety. I was in the battle of my life during this time to literally save my brain, so my pain issues were hardly noticeable. ( must be the way the body prioritizes things)…Problem was after coming off everything, I never really felt right mentally and my chronic pain issues slowly returned after 5 months with a vengeance.
I then saw another doctor for pain injections and neurotomy procedures to burn nerves that send pain and was put back on Percocet. I really hated to go back on any opioid but my pain was so bad I could barely walk. After taking 30 mg Percocet daily for another 7 months, I noticed the same severe anxiety and cognitive function returning. I told the doctor I couldn’t take the immediate release meds, but he refused to give me any slow release type. Disgusted, after finding your site in a search and having heard of Kratom in chronic pain forums, I decided to try Kratom for pain. Kratom allowed me to instantly discontinue the Percocet and actually helped my pain just as well and for a longer duration. I stopped seeing this doctor because the nerve burns weren’t helping and I wanted no more opioids. But here is the rub….I do have chronic pain and continue to take the Kratom. It does work but if I try to stop it…pain returns as well as i get extreme anxiety and my brain becomes almost psychotic and dysfunctional. Same thing I experienced after coming off opioids before.. Does this mean my opioid receptors are permanently damaged?
I just don’t know…All I know is I tried your method for stopping the Kratom as indicated with calm support and supplements to no avail. I’m stuck on Kratom. But without Kratom, I do have chronic pain as well. Just not really sure what to do and refuse to go to any type of detox/rehab, for one, because I have real pain! and 2…I spent 24 hours in one once when I first decided to be done with opioids and it was a nightmare. I was treated like street scum, cavity searched on arrival, prison atmosphere, and they couldn’t manage critical medications I need for other medical conditions of Primary Aldosternism and hypertension. I walked out after 24 hours. At present, I do believe I am safer on Kratom than opioids and my pain and brain are controlled and I’m much more functional than I’ve been in years. The Kratom has also had great antidepressant effects for my refractory depression and allowed me to discontinue useless SSRI meds. I just hate that I remain dependent on a substance for mental and physical wellbeing.
I know the medical community frowns on Kratom and it may well be banned soon nationwide so I worry everyday. Any suggestions? I’ve thought about seeing a Neurologist, but not sure they can help me or of thats the right thing. I’m nearly 60 years old, and fear my receptors or endorphins cannot recover. I take a full compliment of appropriate amino-acid supplements for my known deficiencies daily but still feel stuck on Kratom. I’m afraid if I go to a doctor they will want to put me back on Suboxone or Methadone and I don’t want that!
Am I a lost cause??..Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
Fred,
Of course you arent a lost cause. Kratom Is a wonderful plant and has allowed many to discontinue pain pills and heroin, as well as drugs for depression and anxiety. I’m glad that you are taking amino acids. Im amazed that many dont know of the value of taking them , especially for opiate addiction. Kratom is also little known by those in the addiction community. Yes, it can cause dependence, however when someone has had problems previously with opiates but they still suffer from chronic pain , I believe its better go natural than pharmaceutical. Many of us suffer from chronic pain but that shouldnt mean that we are just going to have to live in pain, reducing our quality of life. Kratom may also fit into a category of drugs called nootropics, another obsession of mine. Nootropic drugs are ones that enhance memory and other cognitive functions. Many of the amino acids fit into this category as well. Nootropics can be either prescriptive medications or ones that can be purchased otc and online. One that may be especially valuable for someone in your situation is called Bacopa. Bacopa is traditionally used in Ayurvedic medicine for neurological and cognitive improvement. Indian texts dating back to the 6th century describe bacopa as sharpening intellect and reducing mental deficits. A double-blind study conducted in 2013 showed that Bacopa improved cognitive function and mood. It also showed to significantly reduce the amount or cortisol, which is the hormone associated with stress. The benefits of Bacopa are enhanced by adding L-theanine.
Taking nootropics which trigger a dopamine release also produces an analgesic effect, so it makes sense to use them for pain relief, especially as they don’t carry the side-effects, notably depression and anxiety that many prescription pills do.
I assume that you are already taking dopamine boosting supplements, but maybe you need to increase the amount or add another. L-tyrosine, L-dopa, DLPA and Mucuna Pruriens work well for dopamine production. “Stacking” a combination of dopamine producing aminos with Bacopa and L-theanine is chosen by many who deal with chronic pain and the associated anxiety that comes with it.
Its so important to have a healthy diet, one that is high in protein and dark leafy greens. “Juicing” has become a popular choice to attain a healthy body but it also is extremely helpful for brain health. Magnesium and zinc have both been proven to aid in healing brain damage. Folic acid (b12) and other b vitamins are also very crucial. A good multivitamin should be taken. Incorporating Turkey, nuts & seeds, avacodos, spinach, kale, blueberries, Chamomile tea and dark chocolate into your diet will help reduce stress by giving your body the nutrients to improvethe brains neurotransmitters including Gaba & Acetylcholine levels as well as reduce the stress hormone cortisol.
Let your focus be on pain relief instead of having a physical dependence on something which inevitably improves the quality of your life. Become proactive in your health, both the health of your body and the health of your brain. Doing things like exercise, yoga and meditation can greatly improve both your mood and pain levels.
Good luck my friend, I happen to live with daily chronic pain myself. Once I settled down and decided to give up my obsessive thoughts that had me hating being dependent on something, I was able to start doing things like improving my diet, taking the right amino acids and other nutrients, exercising & yoga, and even meditation (Which I thought was only for “hippie types”- which I am not). When pain involves the back, like mine, building my core muscles was so important and yoga helps with this. The hardest thing for me to do was to give up soda, because thats something else that I was addicted to. lol But excess sugar made many of the nutrients that I was using almost useless since sugar reduces their benefits. I still live with some pain, but its nowhere near what it was! I hope the same for you.
~MARY
OAS RECOVERY SPECIALIST
*Disclaimer- recommendations made here are not to be considered medical advice. Please speak with your Dr before starting any supplements, medications, exercise regime or changes in your diet. Follow Dr’s advice.
This post truly helped me I’m using kratom to help with my chronic pain and stop using opiates this morning I got scared because I was out of kratom and felt some withdrawal symptoms, so I was like okay now I’m addicted to kratom, but reading your article showed me that it is a natural pain reliever also helps with my depression and anxiety. Thank you for this article now I’m going to start to not think about my pain and to not think I’m addicted I been using Kratom for a month now. It has done wonders for me. I have been pain free and not depressed or suicidal thoughts at all. I’m also going to start to try yoga my son is a yoga instructor and Russian kettlebell instructor plus a personal trainer. Just need to not think of the pain and do this.
Thank you
It’s a natural painkiller, antidepressant, muscle relaxer, mood enhancer, and I know many people that use it instead of opiates or psych meds. Lots of people use it short-term to transition off opiates, and some use it longer, then have a bit of a time getting off, but nobody has ever said it was worse than being on harder drugs. Thanks so much for you feedback and contribution to this forum. I’ve been used the kettlebell lately at the gym and I love it by the way. 🙂
Tianeptine is very helpful when tapering and detoxing. It’s used in South America and Europe as a anti depression drug. It’s very powerful as a Serotonin reuptake drug.
You can buy online because it’s not for human consumption but a lot of drugs they say the same. I figure once big pharma sees huge profits and pays off the Gov then doctors will prescribe it.
Absolutely. I just learned about tianeptine a few weeks ago and have been enjoying researching it. I’m going to write a detailed article on it in the next few weeks.
Its Stablon and gets good reviews as an SSRE ( a Tricyclic type), and alternative to the limited SSRI’s, SNRI’s meds that are so commonly Rx’d and don’t work for a significant % of severely depressed people, myself included. Its dosage is quite small at 12.5 mg , 3x daily, so its very easy to take too much. Also taking larger dosages tends to have agonist activity at the mu receptor so this makes it a dangerous practice if abused. Having said that, there are some pretty positive reports of people using it as intended for depression/anxiety disorders that haven’t had success with other antidepressants. I am currently experimenting with it myself, but have some difficulty with not taking too much because of the opiate effect. Know however, that the opiate effect is brief and only occurs during the first few times. Chasing it could lead to all kinds of problems including, cardiac and respiratory issues as well as a nasty withdrawal profile so consider yourself warned.
Matt, that is great you like Kettlebell it’s amazing. I love working out now. Especially having me life back..
Also had a question if I decide to get off of Kratom and did it cold Turkey instead of weaning off it. How bad do you think the withdrawals would be if I only been using it for a little over a month and three teaspoons a day? I also switch up my kratom every three days. It’s good to do that so you don’t get a tolerance to it. I have Tried Red, Green, White and Gold strains.
My favorite is the Red and Green Vein. The White gives to much energy and the Gold is to sedating. But the green is just right. The red is amazing I started with that on my first day of withdrawals. I never take any after 4pm because you won’t get no sleep at night.
I have felt no withdrawal and sleep great.
Working out is the key! As for your question:
If I were in your position and didn’t taper the kratom, I would come off kratom cold-turkey with either the vitamin C mega-dose protocol, or the loperamide high-dose protocol, followed by the post-acute withdrawal syndrome protocol. I’ll put links to these articles below:
How To Mega-Dose Vitamin C To Stop Opiate Withdrawal>>
How To Use Loperamide For Opiate Withdrawal>>
How To Stop Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome From Opiates>>
Mary Price,
Thanks so much for your August reply, and I apologize it took me so long to find it and to reply myself. Your response was very thoughtful and comprehensive and it helped me to realize just how much I dun myself for becoming dependent and how I’ve spent the last 3 years trying to rid myself of this dependency all the while suffering in pain. Its really quite insidious. I mean, if I have real pain, addict or no addict, I deserve to treat it. Somehow, I lost that reasoning in the shuffle.
Between doctors becoming more hesitant, the wry judgmental looks or refusals from pharmacists, and the overall atmosphere surrounding opiate use since the CSA and DEA have clamped down in recent years its no wonder. I truly felt like an addict every time i got a Rx filled, and truth be told, I suffer from Refractory Major Depressive disorder with severe anxiety most of my life, so, initially , the antidepressant effects of the opiates were a bonus in my pain management. To me, it was like these were the antidepressants that REALLY worked! Problem is, as we all know, with time, that effect diminshes and I got caught up in chasing it to the point where I depleted my dopamine to such low levels, I was in a constant fog with severe anhedonia. I also felt I was developing hyperalgesia. I knew I had to get off. At that time, it was imperative that I stop opiates and god-willing, I did, and on my own! However, the long term damage was already done and I alienated a lot of important ppl in the process and ended up with some bad stuff in my medical records.
Anyways, I don’t want to rehash my story again, but I did use a variety of amino acids to bring myself back from the brink. But now with life long hypertension that has of late been virtually impossible to control and my kidney function deteriorating as a result, I have become more and more suspect that my rather heavy Kratom use is the culprit( have been taking it daily 7 months now). My kidney protein levels have never been higher and my doctor doesn’t know what to do. I haven’t told him about my Kratom use, but it seems in my best interest to do so although he will just tell me to stop that immediately like he did with my vaping using nicotine use. I love how they think people can ‘just stop’. I feel like less of a person when I cannot comply, but dammit, I am not perfect and these young doctors live in an idealistic world where patients should be perfect or they don’t really want to help them. I have cut back on the nicotine, using nicotine-free vapes, but the Kratom has been a problem. Frankly, I cannot live with out. So, I am looking at going back on opiate pain medication which I fear will 1) not be given enough to adequately manage my pain and receptor issues or 2) ramp up my very sensitive receptors to where I start craving the opiates again or 3) they just tell me to hit the road once they hear I have been using Kratom to manage my pain.
The best part about Kratom, is there is no crazy cravings that one seems to get with the synthetic opiates. The down side is, its unknown side effects, and it being a partial agonist it has weak binding affinity for receptors. It has affected my eating habits in a large way. If i eat even just a moderate meal, its as if the Kratom agonists are ripped off the receptors and I suffer excruciating pain after eating..literally, all my pain issues come back ( i’m not referring to indigestion here). This is consistent and pervasive. From an opiate standpoint, maybe if I was put on something other than oxycodone it would be different, but I’m sure you can see why I worry and have procrastinated on this decision to return to pain mgmt.
I will definitely look into the bacopa as an add-on supplement and ty for this suggestion, but recently have cut back on almost all supplements because of uncontrolled hypertension. Sadly that includes very helpful ones like DLPA, tyrosine and mucana pruriens known to aggravate high blood pressure.
Thanks for your response that gave merit to being a ‘human being’ and of looking at things from a pain perspective rather than an addiction/dependency one. I just hope any pain manager I may deal with can realize the same. I have walked away from 3 already. Never failed a urine tests or pill management, just they wouldn’t listen to my complaints and input i.e. they just always seemed to judge me as an addict with intent to redirect management towards a goal of of more euphoria. Hell, I’m way to far along for that anymore. I don’t even get euphoria anymore (unless pain relief qualifies). I’d have to take incredible doses for that to happen and what seems to happen now with higher doses is cognitive dysfunction(funny how the brain changes), and I have first hand experience now how devasting that is.
To close, so I find myself at a crossroads again. The Kratom just isn’t cutting it for pain anymore, effecting my ability to eat, and perhaps causing adverse blood pressure and kidney issues. So, I’m seriously considering a return to limited opiate use using only extended release formulations that i believe are the safest for receptors. Its the up/down receptor effect of IR meds thats tends to get people in trouble, at least based on my understanding and experience.
Thanks again, sorry this is so late, and any other thoughts you have would be much appreciated,
Your friend,
Fred
Mary,
Sorry my reply is so long, I didn’t realize it till i posted it. I’m working on being more concise, especially on this site that gets so many hits. My apologizes and hope you have the patience to read it through.
Thanks,
Fred
My best suggestion thus far would be to get a “blender bottle” the kind you mix protein shakes in, for mixing the kratom powder with juice, works like a gem! Makes mixing it so much easier.
You can get one from walmart for like $5. As far as kratom, I am loving it!!!! Its working for me! THis webpage has literally just saved my life! thank you!
I am currently using Kratom maeng da for my withdrawls (heroin, then morphine). I did use the taper method prior to taking kratom. ISince the person taking this medication was NOT going through withdrawls while taking kratom. DO NOT TAKE ON AN EMPTY STOMACH. It will cause you to vomit. For someone whos trying to stop, getting the most absorbstion really shouldn’t be your main concern. I’m just happy I dont have the chills, no RLS, and can sleep at night with out nausea. So please eat something! But be careful not to eat much after taking it because it can also make you throw up.
I personally didn’t have that problem but we’re all different. That’s got to suck getting sick on top of sick. Good luck too you!
I can’t seem to come off the last sliver of suboxone. I have tried kratom from 2 different vendors with no help for withdrawing. I had most of my stomach removed about 5 years ago and the kratom only makes me sick after only 2g I have to wait 30 mins for more room that’s if I am not sick from it by then. How can I get off this suboxone crap with kratom without being miserable by either the kratom or withdrawal?
Katherine,
Im assuming that this “sliver” is from an 8mg strip of suboxone (8/2mg)? Of course a sliver is not the same size to everyone, so I would like to clarify something. Say you had a whole 8mg strip and you were to cut it up into 32 pieces that were all equal size. These individual pieces would each equal a dose of .25mg ( or 1/4 of 1mg ). Even at that low of a dose, many have trouble giving it up , especially without some withdrawal. Surely, the withdrawals are easier when the doses are much smaller, but still, withdrawal of any kind is hard to handle.
Now, about not being able to come of that “sliver”; There are some changes that people who are tapering Suboxone can make throughout their taper which helps make the problems they are experiencing less and less. A lot of these changes that Im referring to is to get your body and brain healthier by mending many of the health issues that developed over time, especially from long term drug use. Our brain chemistry has so much to do with addiction and the withdrawal symptoms that comes with stopping any opioid (suboxone too). Making these changes can really help people overcome many of the problems that they are dealing with and suffering through:
1. Make sure your diet is healthy! A. Get plenty of protein! (protein is a precursor to endorphins which are lacking when a person uses opiates. helping oneself begin to produce endorphins naturally can go a long way!) B. Include fresh fruits and vegs in your diet (many vitamins and nutrients provided in these foods are needed in order for the brain to produce the natural chemicals (neurotransmitters) that help us deal with many things like stress, sleep, energy, motivation, relaxation, and so much more!) C. Include dark leafy greens (these contain many essential vitamins and minerals that help synthesize neurotransmitters, helping with things like moods and anxiety) D. Include nuts and seeds (for the same reason as above) E. Give up sugary drinks and excess sugary foods!!**This actually might belong in the #1 spot because of the brains reaction to sugar and carbs** (Many of the nutrients that you are giving yourself though your diet or supplementation are not being properly absorbed by your body because of the sugar. For instance, if you are eating healthy and taking vitamins, but continuously drink sodas, many of the vitamins that you think your body is getting , are actually not being absorbed very well and instead excreted without your body getting the full benefit. Drinking sodas or having a diet high in carbs and sugar and also taking many vitamins that you have purchased, is almost like throwing your money down the toilet!)
2. Take a multi-vitamin
3. Start dlpa, l-dopa, l-tyrosine or mucuna pruriens. These amino acids are to help produce dopamine. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that is low in almost all opiate addicts. Producing more dopamine will help fight many of the withdrawal feelings like: energy, rls, motivation, etc
4. You may want to consider also adding a Serotonin boosting amino acid *if you ARE NOT on an SSRI (Serotonin Selective Reuptake Inhibitor – certain antidepressants fall into this category) Serotonin (the brains natural antidepressant) is an amino acid that helps with anxiety,depression, moods, sleep, sexual desires, and more. Amino acids for this are 5htp & Tryptophan
5. Compile a “Withdrawal Kit” of different that help with withdrawal symptoms. This may include different :A. prescription medications (Clonidine being the most valuable, In my opinion, but others may be beneficial to you depending on the severity of your symptoms. There are ones that will help with RLS, anxiety, and sleep) B. OTC medications ( Immodium, Benadryl, Hylands Restful Legs
7. Meditate!! Also produces Dopamine
8. Get PREOCCUPIED!! Find something that you enjoy and do it! Alot! (heres a piece of advice that your significant other will appreciate, I bet 🙂 ! HAVE SEX! This is also a great (and fun, fullfilling, enjoyable,….ok, ill stop before I start sounding like a pervert….LOL) way to naturally produce Dopamine/Endorphins!
9. Eat Dark Chocolate (This will help release endorphins and the body’s natural opiods.)
Just know that YOU CAN DO THIS!! Join the group I suggested and you will see how others have done it, and meet many more who are in the same situation that you are. We are some members’ only form of support and would love to include you in our “family”.
~Mary
OAS Recovery Specialist
*Disclaimer- Suggestions for medications, herbs, supplements, diet and exercise are not to be considered medical advice. Please speak to your Dr before starting any of these and follow the advice from your Dr.
I feel you and your situation. All I can offer is some suggestions and perhaps hope. I have chronic pain too, and am on a pain med but my doc has a mental condition I think. He acts like a drug dealer and goes on power trips. But I can’t quit the hydrocodone because of my pain issue. And I don’t know if kraytom will work for me except maybe temporary to get off the hydro. Now I don’t have problems with carvings, just pain. And the pain is ferocious. So I don’t think i’ll ever be free….and live in an unlucky time to just resign myself to take pain meds and cope.
But your situation…..yes I think your receptors can be healed and functional again. But it might take long term supplements. DPLP and DPA and 5-HTP are all supplements specifically for brain neurotransmitters. I think you can also get the GABA supplement (basically gavapentin /neurontin). Those are replacement nutrient ‘hormones’ your brain needs. Many people used those nutrients to help with declining brain function as we age. Now if you REALLY want to get off everything, speaking if your receptors are working, likely they are (or you’d be dead). But don’t fret about the mentality to be ‘off ‘ something. When people get older we start looking for supplements to help with the inevitable aging process. And not just the afore mentioned supplements, but always taking 2 mg of C, a high dose B complex. Making sure your thyroid and B 12 levels are right. I have notice sometime people with addiction problems thing everything is related to or a consequence of, addiction. But older people who never had a problem their whole lives take these supplements due to aging. Vitamin E is important and so are your essential fatty acids. I found the vegetable based ones better than fish oil and I think it’s because fish are so polluted now. Olive oil, flax seed oil. And don’t forget COQ10 (walmart) at about 200-400mg/day and it won’t hurt you or interfere with any meds. It increase the oxygen uptake of all tissues, it increases micro-circulation. This is essential to deliver nutrients which are the building blocks of repair. They can’t fix anything if they can’t get there. The fatty acids are absolutely essential to build and protect the nerves and brain.
Then there’s another avenue to use in conjunction with good supplements. A great diet. Plant based with whatever else your body needs, like eggs or red meat or chicken. Eat only that which has to be cooked or can be eaten raw. Some people also do a juice fast like once a week, or for a few days at a time, fasting seems to reboot the body and cause all systems to work right. What it does is detoxify. And there’s a lot more to detox than drugs. Medicines that leave by products of metabolism, a lifetime of eating crappy foods which are now largely poisoned. Spring water not tap water. Once your body becomes a bit ‘cleaner’ from life, once you have boosted your circulation (adding cayanne pepper which doesn’t cause heartburn helps alot) use lots of ginger, hot spices, garlic….whatever you like or can manage….all enhance circulation but nothing like the COQ10 I mentioned….and in turn when your micro circulation is improved it can deliver all the rebuilding nutrients to where they need to go.
Now about kraytom. I wouldn’t worry about ‘being dependent’ on it. Many people have said over time they find they can decrease the dose with the same effects but it depends on why you’re taking it. Often, drug addiction is a coping mechanism to handle depression and anxiety. So this might be very good news to you. The white and green starins help the most with this. The red is mostly for pain. So even though you have a pain issue, you could try blending (you’ll have to do a little experimenting) the red along with the white and green strains. Kraytom can be the thing that helps with both pain and depression and anxiety. I have heard many people mix strains and have success and I think a lot of that has to do with helping (about curing really) depression and anxiety. So assuming you can afford all this, I would start by delving into the kraytom and finding the right blend for you. In the meantime do alllll the supplements religiously. And the good diet. Exercise also releases endorphins, and if it releases endorphins that means your brain hormones or neurotransmitters are working and give them the nutrients they need and I feel confident a lot of healing will take place. Generally people don’t feel much improvement with diet etc for about 3 months. It steadily improves after that. You have to give your body time to repair.
So I wouldn’t feel bad about ‘being on’ something. You can adjust your kraytom dose and mixture as time goes on. Go more if you’re suffering and when feeling good, a bit less. Likely you’d have to adjust your blend too. You may find repair has taken place with the reason for the physical pain. You may find in the end you need it more for anxiety or depression rather than pain, or you may find as your health improves you need it more for a chronic pain condition and less for anxiety/depression. It depends on what your body’s true needs are.
I will tell you this too. Most people trying to really vamp up their health by becoming vegan, all organic, and fasting feel like they are withdrawing from drugs as well. So be aware that toxins do build up in the body from everything we ever injested. Of course you don’t have to go purist and it’s like tapering off meds, you taper off bad foods gradually so you don’t get bad effects, but that usually only bothers people who go straight vegan and start fasting a lot.
Did you know 75% of all people who are depressed also have a B vitamin deficiency or its at least on the low side? Something to think about. They did an experiment with healthy inmates without any problems. They specifically gave them diets deficient in B vitamins. All became depressed and anxious and many suicidal.
Plus, there are herbs called ‘adaptogens’. These harmonize body functions. Don’t know how they do it but seems like if you have any point to weak or too strong they normalize all body functions. Ginseng is one. There are several others as well. They can be taken daily.
All this together means yes, your body can heal from brain to toenail. It just has to have help of building blocks of nutrition, supplements, good food, and cleansing old toxins just from living.
So…..there is hope in achieving what you strive for, nondependence and good function. Sometimes we have conditions we just have to live and deal with, like depression, anxiety, pain. People are diabetics and have to take meds, some have high blood pressure they have to take meds for, some will just have chronic pain, but most of that can be greatly reduced by becoming optimally healthy. Maybe you’ll need the boost of a cup of kraytom tea anyway for depression or nerves, maybe you’ll need a cup or two a day of kraytom for pain. Maybe other easier to get herbs will do you well instead of the kraytom. Chamomile tea can be bought at the grocery store and it’s a nervine and anti nausea. Mostly a cup at night to help you sleep, but if one had high anxiety problems it could be drunk everyday, two or three times a day. I guarantee you’ll feel sedated.
So it might take time, it does for anyone going on a ‘health kick’. But I think you can become ‘free’ of feeling dependent on something like an actual drug, even kraytom herb.
I know a lot of this is dancing around, it’s a lot of info and concepts, but I don’t think your receptors are ‘gone’ and there’s no hope. You can achieve maximum health and in the process correct many chemical imbalances of all sorts to achieve a better state of health and mind than most people. Also look into Qui Gong (chi gong) and tie chi or yoga. The body is a group of systems all doing different things and everything affects something else. So it’s about total balance. And time. You didn’t get this way overnight. Hope that helps.
Hard core? Lol not from subutex. It’s in your mind. Now try 15 bags of black, 8 100 mg morphine pills, 300 mg of Demerol, 120mg methadone, and 3 fentanyl patches 50mg everyday for 2 years. I had to get ambulanced to ER and was so bad I went in to cardiac arrest. Been an addict 48 years. I do subutex withdraws for fun. Lolol
You’ll be fine!! Lolol
I would like to start by saying thank you matt finch! Finding your info has made what seemed impossible more than possible! i know what i want and i know how to get it! SUBOXONE FREE!
i was wondering if i am masking the withdraws with the use of kratom or if the withdraws (90% of them at night insomnia, restless legs, arms, brain,) will begin to ease and i can just quit the kratom? this kratom is working very well! taking away the majority of the symptoms making it not just possible to eat and function well but you actually have a huge appetite and a decent energy level! i am taking alot of vitamins, eating very healthy and drinking half my body weight in ounces of water! i just dont want to stop this kratom in 2 to 3 weeks and still physically withdraw (the skin crawling and tremors..the worst part of it) for another two weeks! i would rather get it over with now and start my LIFE AGAIN!! Thank you again for what you do matt!!! You have been truly inspirational and provided people with actual help that works!!
Hi Richard!
I love your enthusiasm!!! A lot of people use kratom to come off stronger opioid drugs with great success. Lots of people have told me that tapering kratom for a few weeks after coming off Subs, mixed with strong supplements, exercise, water, and nutrition, really helped them feel less symptoms!! Disclaimer: This is not medical advice, and is only for informational use. Please consult with your healthcare provider about the proper protocol you should use.
Good for you Richard! And thanks for sharing your experience using kratom.
Did it work for you. I am a slave to 55mg methadone daily. I want out of this prison!
Matt, How long do I use Kratom for the withdrawals? I stopped taking 10mg Percocet last Friday (morning) and I started the Kratom that same evening. I am currently taking 1-2tsp 3x day of Kratom to help with the withdrawals. How long do I need to do this to get over this hump. I can feel during the day when I need to take my next dose of Kratom. But I don’t want to do this for months. I want to live a clean and healthy life. Today is day 5 without perc- my legs hurt a little and the Kratom helps that in addition to the stomach cramping.
Also, can I take Calm Support with the Kratom?
Hi Chris,
It all depends on your situation. Many people find that tapering it over a few weeks works well, and some just use it for a few days or a week. Others still taper it for months. It’s all about personal preference and individual needs. Many people have taken Calm Support while using kratom to get off opioids, and there are some great testimonials within these comments.
I am using just that right now: Kratom, after trying percs (acetaminophen) , tramadol (heard prolongs withdrawal), and imodium (stomach issues). Out of everything I tried over the past 2 weeks, there’s nothing better: it’s both healthy and effective, combined with vitamin C overdosing, L-tyrosine and B-complex.
I wish I had Kratom at the beginning of my fast and torturous taper: I wouldn’t have suffered as much while experimenting with other stuff.
Thanks for the comment Klaus. And congrats on making so much awesome progress my friend!
THERE IS NO MORE RED BALI AVAILABLE ON TOPEXTRACTS. WHAT DO I DO????
Hi Colie,
I’ve run into the same situation. You can try their Red Horn Kratom, as suggested by Matt. Based on my experience, it has similar effects. Just go slow with it, because it can be a bit more stimulating and, if your like me, you don’t want to end up in an ‘anxiety’ zone. Also, you can try other vendors if you want to stick with the Red Bali. There are a number of ‘approved’ vendors on various Kratom sites. However, I’m not sure about the approval process and have not personally used other vendors. Do some research online so you can make a knowledgeable selection. Also, perhaps Matt can recommend a secondary vendor as well. I wish you all the best!
Hi Matt,
I am effectively using Kratom to come off Percocet, which I have been taking for chronic pain. It has truly made it so much easier, and is allowing me to function during withdrawal with minimal symptoms and effective pain relief. I need to make a liquid dose, in advance, to consume midday, when I’m away from home. I was wondering if the Kratom in solution for say 4 -6 hours will affect its potency, i.e. interfere with the bioavailiabilty of the alkaloids. Your thoughts on this matter is much appreciated.
Thanks, Fred
I have quick question regarding the powder… Is there any visible to see if you’re actually receiving the correct strain of kratom. I’ve order Bali, Borneo, Muang Da (sp?) and white Thai from the company Kratom USA, but they all look similar in terms of powder color. They also all work, but all feel like similar effects. I have several herniated discs and the relief is awesome, but I’m just so nervous about these vendors… Could my kratom be laced? Am I really just receiving the same strain in different packages? Will I build tolerance more easily if I am consuming the same strain? There is also a lot of cross-information out there about tolerance. Where can I find a good guide for reputable sources?
They look different to me when I buy them, but it is a subtle difference in appearance. As for your question, I do believe it is possible to order something and get another thing. Kratom used daily, regardless of the strain, you’ll build a tolerance too. I don’t like switching strains because I found the kinds I like and many I don’t like. Every person is different though. I’ve never heard of the brand you are talking about, so I don’t have experience with their products.
My roommate is getting off heroin. He’s using the red bali kratom. He looks like he took a bunch of sedatives! He can barely talk. He says he’s taking 5 grams 3 X daily? Why is he like that?
It’s called red vein keratom. Why is he so out of it?? He’s been sleeping for 3 days!!
Hello all.
Matt thank you very much for posting this info.
I have a few questions I’d like to ask and I’d greatly appreciate any help or advice anyone may have to offer.
I’m about to go into a detox .
I’ve been using/abusing opana 40mg,oxycodone 30mg i.r.oxycodone 40mg and methadone 10mg.
I admit I’ve abused the hell of these drugs for years.
My use went something like this……
A script for 60 oxy 30s would last about 3 days rarely did I get to day 4 with them.
My script for 30 opanas would last no more than 4 days ……fill on Mon,out by late Thurs.
My script for 30 oxy 40s would last less than a week.
When I used the methadone 10mg I had to take at least 12 to feel much of anything but I haven’t touched the methadone for almost 2 weeks now.
As long as I have other opiates I don’t need or want the methadone.
I started a taper a week ago.
By taper I mean using these pills as prescribed and for me that’s quite a reduction.
The hell of it is I went through this same exact detox from the same opiates 7 years ago.
I did it cold turkey and it was absolutely miserable !!
I was extremely sick for a month and would never recommend that method to anyone !!
After the sickness and being sober for 5 months I felt great and had no desire to touch opiates again.
I honestly believe I would have made it until the worst tragedy happened to us.
On the morning of Sept 18th at 5am 2009 I found my son had passed away sometime during the night.
He was 25 years old and had overdosed on a combination of Xanax and multiple opiates
The pain and grief was unbearable and overwhelming to say the least but the absolute worst was having to tell my wife later that day.
Nothing in my life had ever been so painful and on that day I returned to my old habit to help me cope with the loss of my son.
Yes it was foolish but until you experience such a loss you have no idea of how badly your entire being can hurt.
But now I must reclaim my life and I can’t do it snorting up opiates like a shop vac.
I’ll be going into full detox once my supply of pills are gone and I promised myself I will not return to my Dr. or seek to buy anything on the street.
I’ve absolutely got to quit this destructive abuse as it has taken every thing from me.
I use to design and fabricate gorgeous ornamental iron works for a living.
I use to be an accomplished guitar player and composer but those things mean nothing to me and I know in my heart it’s the drugs that have stolen my joy and ambition.
Matt I’ve already ordered the Red Bali Kartom.
I know once I get my mind locked into a quitting protocol I can do this.
At one point in my life I weighed 480 pounds and had a size 66 waist and wore a 5x shirt.
I knew nothing about nutrition and a healthy lifestyle but I did massive research and learned on my own.
Today I weigh 180 pounds and have a size 36 waist heading towards a size 34 and wear a size large shirt.
I have the pictures and can prove anything I say so I’m 100% certain anything is possible and we can all overcome anything we need to.
I just need pointed in the right direction to get started.
Any help or advice anyone can give me will be very much appreciated !!
And I sincerely wish the very best to all here .
Wow!! U have totally inspired me. Thank you for your comment. I am sorry for your loss. You are right tho. We can not imagine the pain at such a loss. I am also quitting opiates. It’s a hard road but we can do it!!!!
Thanks again Hin and good luck to you!!
Wow! I stopped last Monday morning with my Dilaudid, and took a spoonful of Kratom in a small cup of water! I was not sure this was enough, (since I did not buy a scale) so I ended up using 1 heaping teaspoon in a small cup of water 4 more times on Monday! I had some leftover Liposomal Vitamin C that I started taking again also just not in mega doses! On Tuesday I only used a heaping teaspoon of Kratom in the morning and at night! By night time I was sick of the Kratom not mixing up in my water, and sticking to the sides of the cup, and had to keep adding more water and more water to get it all out of the cup! So I just put the whole heaping teaspoon of Kratom in my mouth and followed it with a gulp of water, then swishing more water around in my mouth to get it all down, and I had no issues with the taste! I was like wow only two doses of Kratom on Tuesday, Wed, and Thursday, and none on Friday! I had no withdrawal symptoms and only some minor depression on Monday! I did not even go through 4 ounces of the 8 ounces of Kratom that I bought! I also never felt any kind of euphoria or any kind of high with the Kratom, and the Bali Red Vein (which is all I bought) never made me sleepy or anything! Just my story with Kratom, and what worked for me might not work for everyone, so please follow Matts protocol! In my opinion the Kratom is better than mega dosing with Vitamin C! Thanks for all your help Matt! You are a life saver! Now to keep me from picking up my next prescription at the pharmacy, since my doctor writes for 3 months at a time! OMG!
Oh wow Lane! Super cool! You know what? Kratom really is a miracle plant for helping people quit opiates. Used in the right way, it can be a pretty easy process as you’ve just found out. I thank you for sharing your experience with us as your comment will totally help others. And I am very impressed with your progress! You did the vitamin C mega-dosing, quit successfully, had a quick lapse back to using Dilaudid, then immediately started to plan your next detox. You’re so awesome! Congrats!!!!! And I wish you all of the strength and courage in the world to help you abstain from picking up your next 3-month prescription. 🙂
It is all about you Matt! You are the Angel in this story! By the way, it is not a 3 month prescription, the doctor just writes me 3-1 month prescriptions at a time, so I do not have to go so often! And I give them to the pharmacist who holds them for me! So until next Tuesday when they call and say it is ready, I am trying to figure out away to say no! I do not have any cravings, at all! What I think it all boils down to is will power! I do want to quit but am not sure I am strong enough to say no! Not sure what to do next! Suggestions are appreciated!
Oh yes that makes sense. What a cool doctor! But I know how difficult that will be to turn down all of those pills. If you are truly done forever and don’t want to use opiates ever again, you might think about burning your ships. In 1519, Captain Hernan Cortez landed in Veracruz, Mexico, with the intent of beginning a great conquest. He immediately ordered his men to burn all of their ships, which meant that they were either going to win or die trying, because they didn’t have the escape plan anymore.
When you have an escape plan (i.e. prescriptions waiting for you) it makes it more difficult to succeed. This doesn’t mean you can’t do it, however, burning your ships makes it much easier. Brainstorm some ways to burn your ships, and decide if that is even something you want or need to do. 🙂
Matt, I’ve been addicted to either Heroin, pain pills, or methadone since 1968. Currently I’m on a 20 year Methadone run. I’ll try this Kratom. I’ll be shocked if it works and I can’t believe I have t heard of this before now. Any thoughts?
I was shocked when I heard of it too Irvin. Hopefully they won’t make it illegal because it helps a lot of people.
Matt, what a life saver you are! This time I only took 6 doses of Red Bali Vein Kratom ( 1 heaping teaspoon ) and no withdrawals! I have been on Dilaudid 4mg, and abusing it for almost 2 years, and I have read that it only lasts 3-5 hours in the body! My withdrawals before finding your site, lasted 2 weeks, out of every month, as I went through my pills in two weeks each month! Now I have about 1 bad day, mentally depressed, but no withdrawals! This Kratom really is a miracle plant! Thanks Matt, appreciate you so very much!
Hi Matt, I have followed you for a while and I have gone as far as I can, I have been on a constant OxyContin roller coaster for 8 years due to surgeries.. I have wanted to stop because it has gotten out of hand, I have no help and I need help badly! I love your story and frankly that’s all that keeps me in a form of hope… My family thinks it’s all in my head and they don’t want to help me.. I’ve reached out to places and I can travel anywhere but it’s been useless without thousands and thousands of dollars.. Please help me with whatever information u can. Today I tried heroin for the first time because I ran out of medicine 4 days early and now I know I have hit rock bottom. So much more to say but it doesn’t matter at this point! So anyway, any advice would be appreciated! Thanks
You tried heroin for the first time and you think you’ve hit rock bottom? I’ve been a heroic addict 49 years. You can’t imagine the horror yet to come. It’s beyond imagination so ask G-D to help you and get serious. I pray for you.
Awesome! I have 49 years of opiate addiction but the last 26 were with Methadone. I need off this crap! I’m 63 and where I want to move there’s no methadone programs so I hope it works for me like it did for you.
I replied but failed to mark the box where I’m informed of someone responding. I’m on about a 15 year 100mg methadone run. All legal and clean off heroin. Now I’m moving in 2 months where there’s no methadone program so time is limited to kick this crap. I’m 63 so I can’t handle what I could when young eh. I pray this works. I can get 28 day takeout and just drive 12 hours round trip every 28 days but that will suck. Especially come winter. Any suggestions are appreciated.
That’s what my roommate is using. He’s a walking zombie
It’s working? Or no.
Yes, he’s on day 5 he looks and feels great. I apologize. He was taking valium. That’s why he was a walking zombie. I didn’t know that until today!! It really works. And I’m spreading the word!!
I am glad I found this site, seems like all the others I come across are all outdated by 5 years or so. Anyhow, this is my story:
My addiction started after I was prescribed Lortab’s which I used for about six months and then began to suffer withdrawals once I my doc took me off. Unfortunetly for me, the area I was living had an abundance of “pill mills” and getting hydocodones was particularly easy. Long story short, I became a raging addict for about 6 more months sometimes taking up to 20 Lortab 10’s a day. Obviously I needed help so I got on Suboxone for about 4 years. A couple months ago I decided I was done with this monkey on my back so I tapered down from 8mg’s a day to about 2 mgs a day and jumped off. To aid in recovery I bought Multi-V’s, B-Complex, Phenibut, Kratom, Passion Flower, Tylenol, Melatonin, Bennadryl, Hyland’s RLS pills, Immodium, 5-htp and some other supplement for “nervousness”. I have also always been a gym rat so I continued my 5 day workout regimen. The first 3 days weren’t horrible, then it got real shitty until day 13 at which point it was still horrible, just not quite as bad. Around day 20 I began to find articles about Kratom dependency and realized my 25-30mg daily intake was pushing the envelope real bad. I was extremely nervous that I would end up hooked on Kratom so I did something rather stupid…I began to take < 1mg of Suboxone a day for 5 days in order to detox from the high amounts of Kratom I had been using. I know this sounds ridiculous but keep in mind that I was moving out of state and still had to continue working a rather high profile job. A lot was riding on that particular period of time and after 20 days of looking like a walking zombie, I had to start operating a acceptable levels or I would find myself in dire straights. After the 5 days back on .05 mg's of Sub I began to jump back and forth with Kratom and TINY particles of Sub because I was working with a new group of people and couldn't afford to mess up. I figured cycling these two drugs would prevent dependency on any one in particular. Also, within these last 30 days (since I resorted back to Subs for 5 days) I have also tried my hardest to just stay clean and would usually make it 2-4 days before I started developing WD symptoms so to look at my detox in a quick shot, I started Feb 1st and went 20 days without Suboxone but USING Kratom as an alternative. To prevent Kratom dependency I took less than 1 mg of Suboxone a day for 5 days (Feb 25th) then I didn't take anything for 4 days. On Feb 29th I DESPERATELY needed to perform so I took Kratom for a few days in order to move out of State. Once I arrived at my new destination I began to cycle Sub and Kratom usually using one or the other for two days then switching or not taking anything at all, and if I did take Sub it was only .05 mg's. This "cycling" has gone on for the last 20 days and in those 20 days I have taken nothing at all for about 10 of them. The problem I have is that the WD symptoms NEVER go away. I am with my GF whom I haven't seen for a year (gone for work) and I get annoyed by EVERYTHING. I am irritable, uncomfortable and have no energy or sex drive which makes her very curious as to why I am so fucked up…hence why I keep resorting back to opiates, basically if I don't then I am a miserable wreck who tosses and turns all night and gets angry at everything and doesn't want to ever do anything but lay around. Oddly enough however, I have still been staying true to my workout regimen hoping it will speed up the recovery. As I type this I am on 7 mg's of Bali and that's probably the only reason I was able to write all of this, otherwise I would just be depressed and not want to say a thing. I don't know what to do anymore, my relationship with my GF is failing miserably, I am depressed to the point of feeling like there isn't a point anymore, I am paranoid and nervous all the time and the lack of sleep and overall anxiousness (RLS) is driving me literally insane.
Another thing (I went from 16 MG of subutex to zero) I use kratom even though I am over 40 days without a suboxone I too had a lot going on I needed energy for. I’m agonist out of the kratom but have been taking less and less over the last few weeks. Sometimes it’s just worth it to be sick for a while to get through it, I’m getting ready to do the same thing because I refuse to order any more kratom. Good job and keep your head up
I am 3 days into using kratom, and i am having trouble sleeping. Well this morning i just could not take it anymore, had not slept at all, i ended up doing half of a 7.5, then slept like a baby. Before doing this, my addiction was stable at around 35mg for several years, but at one point it was as high as 90mg a day. How bad is a relapse of 1/10th my daily dose going to set me back? The problem is, once you hit the 3 day mark for no sleep, your not thinking clearly, and if it happens again, i am sure i will cave again. Even if, i try to take as little as possible.
If every couple of days, i am taking 3.25mg will i ever be able to kick it? Ive been using maeng da for daytime, and bali for nighttime. Last night i must have done 2 tsp of bali before i resorted to opiates.
Thanks
Lack of sleep is one of the symptoms that many people cannot tolerate, and so end up using again. Please read this article which I believe will be of value to you:
How To Sleep During Opiate Withdrawal
Since everyone is different in their bodies and life circumstances, this method might be what some people want to do, and others might not want to go this route, and different people could get different results. If it was me, I would just want stop putting opioid agonists in my receptors to give the receptors a chance to be totally cleaned out, that way my brain could start producing the natural endorphins faster. Continuing to use it is just delaying the 100% progress, however, I understand that people have busy lives and need energy to get things done, so I totally understand why someone would use here and there.
I am on 80mg of methadone. I was on 110mg. I am tapering 10mg every two weeks and thats faster than the doctor reccomends, I can feel the withdrawal I also have a whole bunch of medical problems. It will be 4 or 5 monthes to go as fast as possible. Is that too long for the kratom taper? I mean I would come off faster if I was sure that I could handle it on the kratom but I don’t know how long the withdrawal lasts on methadone, it has an extremely long half life, I’ve been told monthes. Fentanyl was so bad I couldn’t even talk or open my mouth. I was basically dead. I just want to be off methadone.
I was on 50mg of methadone and tapered 5mg a week, and didn’t start feeling squirrely til I got down to 5mg/day…one day after my last dose I went and got a bottle of kratom from a local head shop….WOW! This stuff is a miracle botanical!!! It totally alleviates all of my w/d symptoms! Can’t recommend it enough!
What type did you buy? I’m looking to free myself from the binds of the methadone clinic but want to have enough energy to take care of my daughter, house etc..
So, I know the Red Vein is good for withdrawals, but I’m wondering if I need a Green Vein as well..
Many people have told me they tapered kratom over the course of a few months with great success. The woman I referred to in the article was so sick of methadone due to her serious weight gain that she got off cold-turkey on a high dose and used kratom for 3 weeks. She told me it helped a lot.
If I go with the cold turkey method how long should I wait after my last dose of the opiate to take my first dose of Kratom?
you dont need to wait, you can start whenever. i believe that was mentioned in the story above. i dont think there are any adverse effects or reactions to starting kratom asap except for the beginning of your new life
Most people take it as soon as they feel like they need it. It’s not like Suboxone where you have to wait a certain amount of time.
I am on my 4th day of no hydrocodone!! I took up to 8 10/325 daily. I started taking kramton on day one. 3 caplets three times a day ..I woke up feeling ok this morning and I only took 2 at 6am.. I was wondering if I stop taking the kramton right now will I start feeling bad? I have a very addictive personality and I do not want to take any chances becoming dependent on it.
Congrats Trish!!! If you stop the kratom and feel bad, you might want to learn about how people use loperamide HCL for a few days after. Check out this article:
How To Use Loperamide For Opiate Withdrawal
Let me just say that Kratom saved my life!!!! I was addicted to Tramadol for many years…HATE THAT STUFF!!!! will NEVER take it again..would rather suffer in pain than take that stuff ever again. Kratom eased and took away the withdrawl symptoms and RLS among other things that accompany withdrawl.
AWESOME!!!
I live in new york where can I get Emay day time from and where do I find kratom
How long did you have to use kratom?
I’ve been on prescribed Fioricet (Butalbital, Acetaminophen, and Caffeine) with codeine for about 15 years. I wish I’d never been given these for headaches I began having after being hospitalized for viral meningitis. I lost a month’s worth of my meds in a flood and even with tapering down I’ve run out a week and a half before my next doctor’s visit. She had already begun tapering me down from 6 pills a day to 4. At 4 I didn’t feel great but was surviving. I imagine she’ll taper it down again this visit. I really think it’s worse coming off the Butalbital than the codeine. Anyway, I’ve used both phenibut and kratom for withdrawal symptoms and it definitely helps me get through it and still be able to work. Right now I’m on day 3 of no Fioricet with codeine and other than being a little sleepy if I took a strong strain of kratom I’m relatively comfortable. There is still that bone ache but the anxiety is pretty much null. Better even than when only have 1 or 2 fioricet a day. I’m ready to be off Fioricet completely and I think I can do it with kratom & phenibut. I try to alternate them as I don’t want to trade one bad habit for another and hope to drop them too soon!
Fioricet? There is nothing in there to be addicted to but caffeine, please… I don’t think its even a controlled substance. Drink coffee you will be fine you don’t need kratom, it will give you 30x the buzz of a fioricet- could be the start of a real addiction.
Yea nothing but the barbiturate in it lol
You didn’t read what was said. It has codiene in it too.
Also it has a barbiturate in it. Withdrawal can be so much worse than opiates.
I’m gearing up for a cold turkey withdrawal from a bundle a day habit… stocked up with 220 grams of red Bali and Maeng da kratom, day and night elimadrol, passion flower and kava. Have to show up for work during this final detox. Unsure if pre mixing the kratom with store bought grapefruit juice will be ok or if will weaken the effects. Also not sure of how much juice to use. Is it like the elimadrol 10-12 fl Oz or much less. If anyone knows what is best please let everyone know.
Thank you- Hopefull Ken
Hopefull detox
Hello Matt, first of all I’m blown away by your very apparent genuine concern and interest displayed in all the feedback you give to others! I just bought the maeng da capsules today, there’s 15 caps for a net weight of 7.5g however, there is no mention on the package of dosage….. I have found several sites that talk about doses in powder form but not in capsules. Any suggestions???
Well thanks so much. I try to answer as many comments as possible. I used to respond to everyone, but now between this article and all the rest on this website, there are so many questions/comments on a daily basis that I am unable to respond to 100% of them, though I get close!
Anyways, I’ve used those as well, and they are 0.5 grams each. So every time you take 2 capsules, that is 1 gram. Capsules are the same as powder, unless it says “extract,” in which case the extract is stronger. However, I am familiar with the 15 capsules of maeng da that are 7.5 grams kratom, and typically these are just the powders which is same dosing as if it were not in capsule.
Most first time kratom users start off with 3 grams on an empty stomach to assess tolerance. Then they wait 90 minutes, and if it’s not enough, they take more…typically up to a max of 9-10 grams, though some with large tolerances go even higher. Thus, a person with 15 capsules would start with about 6.
Listen Kratom is awesome for getting off opiates but make no mistake, Kratom is addictive!!! DO NOT TAKE FOR MORE THAN A COUPLE WEEKS STRAIGHT!!!
I took it for about 18 months and the withdrawal was on par with past heroin withdrawals. And time slows way way down so every minute feels like 20 minutes and the whole process lasts about three weeks!!!
Thank you for that information, are you sure you can take it that long and not have withdrawals? And does it matter how much you take as far as coming off of it without the withdrawals?
I agree completely I used kratom for my liquid morphine addiction and took green vein kratom for 3 weeks 2 capsules every 4 to 6 hours. quitting it cold turkey like I did resulted in almost the same withdrawal symptoms as morphine. be careful with it. taper slowly I had to get lorazepam for the anxiety which was as bad as it can get.
Unfortunately I’m on a 18 year methadone run. All legit but there’s no way anyone is getting off the Nazi drug in two weeks. I believe it’s better to take Kratom for 4-5 months, then get off Kratom. The last time I kicked Methadone it took 5 months of HELL!
I go back to it because it keeps me off Heroin. Lesser of two evils.
When I tried to purchase this product I was told it was not for human consumption? What am I missing?
That’s just a legal disclaimer
I ordered the calming pill and now I see this day and night powder. I am confused on this whole process now. Can you please break down your plan step by step in its entirety? To assist you, I will inform you that the doctor has had me on norcos for two years. I take 4-6 pills a day depending on pain, but I no longer want to be on medication. Thanks!
What are you confused about exactly?
Hi I live in Indiana and Kratom is illegal here! I went to a shop in Michigan and was only able to obtain 2 five count packets with only .4 grams per capsule. My question is where can I buy it? And if I was able to obtain it online, are there any you could recommend?
Hi Jordan there are many places to purchase online, and many good companies. Check out this article:
Top Extracts Review: Insanely Awesome Kratom And Other Opiate Withdrawal Remedies
Bikhuk.com is where I used to get mine. They had the best prices and it was fresh powder.
Hey Matt,
This is a little long so I’ve both emailed it to you as well as posted on the thread in case your reply might be beneficial to others.
I came across your page a few days ago and decided to try and regain my life back from suboxone. I’ve heard first hand accounts from friends and have read a lot about the positive effects of kratom for opiate withdrawal. I’ve been following the steps in your article. I’m taking about 1/3 of and oz 3 to 4x per day (about 9 grams), via the grapefruit juice method. I’m also taking many (but not all) of the vitamins found in elimradol. I’ve been exercising along with this regimen and this is day 3 of no suboxone. I’m planning on following through with the steps listed in the article and reducing my intake on days 5-7 as suggested. So far a feel great! I would venture to say that I haven’t felt any symptoms that are intolerable and was able to get 7-8 hours of sleep last night and the night before. SO, Based on your experience/observation of individuals who have used this method, I guess my question to you would be Is the kratom simply masking or prolonging inevitable acute withdrawals? I’m not super worried about PAWs only the, severe physical pain of WD that keeps people returning to opiods. Or would you say that the most severe symptoms in the first 7 days of acute withdrawal can be alleviated with the use of kratom, entering PAWS after discontinuation of kratom. I rapidly tapered my suboxone dosage from 2mg-1mg over 2 weeks in .25mg reductions. Since suboxone withdrawals are generally longer would you suggest to stay on kratom for more than 7 days, or would doing so likely risk a kratom addiction, along with withdrawals when coming off kratom? I realize that everyone is different depending on their neurological/body chemistry, level and length of opiod use, etc. Just wondering if you could answer these questions in terms of generality based on suboxone/opoid users that you have seen use the kratom method.
P.S. This website is hope inspiring and seems to be helping alot of people who feel trapped by the physical boundaries of opiod dependence. A positive attitude has alot to do with how severe withdrawal can be, and I attribute some of my comfort and drive this time around to reading websites like yours, following your steps and knowing that there are people out there who this method has worked for. After treating a 1 year opiod addiction with by spending 3 years in a suboxone program, I am ready to take my life back. I realize that you are not a physician, but I put more stock in your stories of observed success than any I’ve heard from a doctor (especially the quacks at the suboxone clinics). I find that most therapists are more upfront and honest with patients because they’re only agenda is the patient’s well being rather than pushing a drug or covering their ass on paper. These days with any drug, it almost seems as the the power of the prescription pad makes doctor’s see dollar signs instead of patients. So, in conclusion let me say thank you for creating this page and giving people hope and for possible options that a doctor never would.
Hi Tyler,
Many people coming off Suboxone, Subutex, or methadone take kratom for longer due to the long half-life. I’ve read comments and emails of people tapering their kratom for three weeks to even a few months. They say that tapering longer with supplements, nutrition, and exercise as well as other things like hot baths really helped them.
Hi Tyler,
Hopefully by this time you are free from opiates. My intent here isn’t to ‘rain on your parade’, so to speak, but from personal experience, I wouldn’t underestimate PAWS. I just want to make the point for you and other readers that, depending on your usage, PAWS can linger for months and even years sending even the most adamant sobriety seeker into relapse. Just be aware of PAWS symptoms and how they can seemingly come out of nowhere even on a good day, and know that they are just temporary and part of the brain repairing itself. Personally, I felt the acute withdrawals to be much more tolerable, albeit painful, than the persistent PAWS mostly because I knew that in a week(short half-life opiates) they’d be gone whereas with PAWS, they could strike without warning at any given moment. ( Longer half life opiates such as Methadone and Suboxone have longer acute withdrawal periods….another reason to avoid them all together, if possible, in your quest for sobriety.) I too, did a Suboxone taper due to a large dose dependence, and found it necessary. As suggested on this site, and as you probably know as well, they are no picnic to come off of. I still cringe at the thought of the doctor telling me they were ‘easier and less painful to get off!’… Sometimes I wonder if these doctors got M.D.s from a matchbook cover !
Wishing you all the best in your recovery…
I haven’t tried the kratom yet, I’m trying to work up the nerve (terrible spice reaction!) So I’m petrified. I’ve been off suboxone 8mg for almost two months now, was on it for 5 1/2 years. During which time I also used opiates. If I were to use, it would be 6-7 dilaudid 4s at once (snort, not IV) but anyway, my point is I still feel like shit, wanna sleep all the time, depressed, just no energy what so ever. Could this shit help?
Yes it can help. Spice and kratom are absolutely nothing alike. Spice is a synthetic thc analogue. Kratom is a natural plant that engages opiod receptors. They couldn’t be any more different. Literally no comparison at all.
Hi Stacey,
I have been on opiates for over 10 years. I would take suboxone and go right back to handfuls of norco and sometimes OxyContin. I finally tried kratom and I wasn’t excited either.It changed my life.I did the taper method and now I just take Kratom.You can do it!!
I’m first time trying Kratom but it give me energy and I can not sleep I though it was suppose to help you relax I’m coming off opiates and just wondering if someone could help and walk me through this
What type of kratom are you taking? Some of the strains and dosage amounts are very stimulating, while others are sedating.
okay, now i’ve read 7 different ways Matt, wth?? pick one that IS the best IYO. please! I just got the liposphere c whatever high doses of vitamin C now im not sure if I shouldnt do this one instead??? HELP I want off!! havent taken suboxone for 10 days am on 1 , 100mg ultram a night, after holidays thats done i need to know!!
I have been on tramadol for four years the first time getting off last December was holy hell….. then I had reconstructive surger this tl treat on my foot and also have fibormyalgia and theorists arthritis I had a accept and it was time to Valk in a new abrupt and the doctor is refusing to prescribe more will kratom help work my withdraws from this terrible dog that the doctor swear it’s not addicting
How many of the maeng tablet pills do I take since I don’t have the red 1?
KRATOM VERY USEFUL FOR WITHDRAWAL, I’M ONE THAT HAD BENEFIT FROM IT.
Ghj
Where can i buy kratom
Ummm there’s this thing called Google. Use it please.
I purchased the red vein Borneo Kratom from the link on your sight. On the bag it says not intended for human consumption. Is it still ok to consume? I
I just wanted to first say thank you for all u do. I have visited many of your sites and learned alot. I am down to 7 milligrams of methadone a day from 70. I have felt the pain through the whole withdrawls process but it’s been manageable, which was my goal so I can get to work. If I had time to lounge and not work I think I would have quit methadone a couple months ago. What’s your thoughts of stopping methadone a 7 milligrams and starting kratom? Again thanks for all the help.
Matt,
I am sincerely overwhelmed and honestly petrified. I have been on suboxone for over 10 years. 8 years ago I came off and it was horrendous and within 4 months I relapsed and was then was back on suboxone again. I don’t know who I am anymore. I feel so numb and depressed all of the time and long to be off of this drug but fear is holding me back. I’m on 4 mgs. and plan to taper but last time I tapered until .25 and still went through PAWS severely. I hate posting this because I do not want to scare anyone away from detoxing off suboxone. For me the physical symptoms are the least of my worries. Last time I suffered severe depression, suicidal thoughts and intoxicating anxiety. My doctor would only prescribe me nortryptaline which did nothing to relieve my symptoms. I am having depression now what will it be like if I stop. Yet, I can not go on feeling this way either, I have a large family to take care of and can’t get away at all. I need help formulating a program that will keep me semi-funtionable. I am serious about my need and desire to get off of this medicine, its been my worst nightmare.
Your story reads exactly like mine.. Im concerned and worried, anxious about another remedy but MUST get off opiates. I went through a taper withstand suboxone down to .25 mg every other day then stepped off and felt horrible.. doctors that detoxed and helped me along the way were then convinced after my last dose I was trying to be obtuse and was trying to stay addicted! They had no other options for me other than shoving me towards counselling and told me to deal with it.. some hmo huh?! Lame! I’m back on opiates but have 3 little boys, a wife who works and goes to school and I own a restaurant! I’m in deep.. and need out for good. At any rate, have you gone down the path of kratom yet and if so, what is your experience, method, and how are you feeling? Maybe we can communicate and help one another on this journey.. help from a supporting cast or individual is a necessary and provocative step to healing.. Im Dan B. and you can feel free to contact me by email. Once you get this we can exchange info. I hope all is well and I am praying for your recovery and good health.
0.25 suboxone is too high to drop off. Taper down to as low as you can go–0.06–about 1/4 as much as the 0.25–is a much better dropping off place. Also, when you get to your final taper amount, continue to take it every other day for 8 days, then take every 3 days for 12 days, and then stop. It will be much easier. Suboxone is wonderful for helping us get off of some of the nasties, but it brings it’s own long-term withdrawal. By tapering as much as you possibly can (yes, use twizers and a mirror to place under your tongue, and cut using straight manicure/mustache scissors), it’s much easier to get off and stay off.
0.25 is quite low… I can’t stress enough how important it is to start skipping days once you get below 1mg subs. I tired relentlessly to rid myself of subs with tapering and cutting strips, etc. Finally I tried the day skipping and it did the trick. Its very important because of subs long half-life. Just my personal experience from someone who has been there. I’d never go back on Subs unless it was for permanent opioid maintenance. They are simply the worst to discontinue and I think its a travesty that that is go-to treatment in this day and age by the medical community.
Do you think Suboxone is a worse kick than Methadone? I’ve never been on Suboxone because it’s too damn expensive. I’ve been on a 15 year Methadone run with 14 years clean this time and want off but it’s hard. I’ve kicked Methadone many times as my first try was in 1972 when they paid me to be on it. I’m getting a lot of medical advise saying to switch to Suboxone but that in itself is very hard. I have a hard time tapering. I’m just shy of 64, started heroin in 1968 and I wander if I should resign myself to the facts. I’ll die an addict.
I’ve been on kratom for 7 days. I tapered down from 480 mgs a dy to 40-80 a day of oxicontin & oxicodone. I started on kratom
Cold turkey from there. The grapefruit juice really helped. I’ve been on 1 1/2 teaspoons twice a day. I used a bali kratom. Can I just stop taking the kratom now? How bad will my withdraws be ? Or should I taper the kratom from here to ? And then stop?
I’m in a very similar situation as you, with regards to your level of usage, DOC. I have quit cold turkey before, but after about 5 days of not sleeping, have just caved in and started using again. My biggest concern is about being able to fall asleep at night.
When you went cold turkey and they started using Kratom, were you able to sleep at all?
Was trying to follow the link to buy the red vein bali kartom but the site says its sold out. I am trying to detox from suboxone and any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Go to a head shop in your area. That’s where I bought my bali kratom
Awe I’m sorry they are sold out. That’s a popular strain. Any of the other red strains or even other kratoms on that website could offer benefit as well. Alternatively, there are other online vendors and smoke shops that might carry Red Bali. I just like the high-quality from the place I linked to. Best of luck to you!
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose, or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Fengshui.com
Hi Matt,
This is a wonderful post, and extremely helpful. I cannot thank you enough! I’m coming off 1mg of Suboxone, and was nervous to use Kratom due to the possibility of prolonging any WD symptoms. I’m 2 days in and was interested in your feedback. I very much appreciate it, and Happy Thanksgiving!
Hey Joey,
I encourage you to read through the comments below to see how others did it. There are many success stories and you can learn some great stuff. Also, some people have had bad experiences. So it’s best to read through the stories yourself. Thanks for visiting my blog, and Congrats on coming off Subs! you ROCK!!!
Hi Matt,I’m new to the whole Kratom thing,a friend of mine told me about it to get off opiates/painkillers(Norco and Oxycotin).Kratom sounds like a great alternative to painkillers/opiates(I am perscribed vicodin 30mg daily);my question to you is what to do for chronic pain(back pain/injury-DDD,herniated disks,doc has suggested total disk replacement of at least 3 disks,& up to 3-4 more),if I stop taking opiates-vicoden? If I start taking Kratom to get off opiates,do I then continue to take it for pain,or taper/get off it as you suggested? Any ideas/advice is appreciated.
Kratom is used successfully for daily pain relief. So, it can no only help detox your system from the severity of opiates but it CAN be used to treat chronic pain.
*Matt-Do you have any articles or resources you’d recommend on Kratom for Chronic Pain?
Hi Matt, I was referred to Kratom from my Dr. I have read a lot about all different strengths, and I am more than ready to order. I guess what I want to know is if the Red Bali mixed with Passion flowers would do the most for me? I just got off oxycodone after 10 plus years and I am on Suboxone. I have anxiety really bad and absolutely no energy, and let’s not forget the pain I’m always in. So to help me with all these things, would that mixture be the correct one? Or just the red bali alone? Like I said I am more than ready to order I just want to make sure I am order the best combination for what ails me. Thanks, hope to hear back soon.
Hi Danette,
Many individuals have used red bali kratom with passion flower and told me how well they worked, and also, this combo felt great for me. I don’t know how your body would respond. They’ve both been shown to be very helpful, but since everyone is different biochemically, I don’t know 100% how anything would work for anyone. These articles are meant for a person to read for informational use, then ask their doctor for a protocol that works for them.
Here is a helpful article on tapering:
Tapering and Discontinuing Opioids
And Calm Support is another opiate withdrawal supplement that is less than half the price of the one I discuss in the article.
Hi Matt
Just wondering if I can continue my suboxone taper while taking the Kratom or are there adverse effects?
Kratom is typically used to jump off Suboxone all the way, not on tapering. If I were ever on Suboxone again, I might do this. Disclaimer: This comment is for informational use and is not medical advice. Talk to your doctor before trying any new plants.
I used Kratom to kick Methadone cold turkey at 35mg and it was a wonderful tool to help you through the roughest part of withdrawals. I’m sitting at day 17 clean from ALL opiates! ALSO! I used essential oils from one of the two biggest online distributors of essential oils. Lavender, Ylang Ylang, Vetiver, and Valerian were really helpful to help me relax… Especially when I used them in the bath tub along with the Epsom salts. I put them in my diffuser in my bed room at night and also applied them topically during the day… and they seriously helped. I used some of the essential oils that are for achy muscles and joints topically as well. I am still using them to help with my anxiety and depression. Super helpful if done properly. My heart goes out to everyone going through withdrawals, I know what it does to you… But there is hope and it gets better y’all! Matt has been a fabulous help to me so I can get back to being the wife and mother the good Lord meant for me to be… Much love and respect to Matt and all those out there pushing through withdrawals.
Your post lifted my spirits and gave me inspiration, so I just wanted to say “Thank you!!” Keep up the awesome work, Matt!!
Hi Matt
Thank you for all this help. I just came home from an inpatient detox off suboxone. To make it short I had 18 months of perc until I had neck surgery hard time coming off the perc so they put me on suboxone for seven months when I finally said enough. I’m 14 days off and feel horrible wondering if the Kratom can help me at this point or not. I have no energy feel depressed and just lay around. I’m trying so hard to push through but I feel like my body weighs 500 pounds. Any suggestions?
Hi Gigi,
If it were me in your position, I wouldn’t start kratom 14 days in, as that would be going backwards. However, everyone is different and some people might prefer to use kratom. I believe the following articles could offer you great value:
How To Stop Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome From Opiates
How To Get Your Energy Back After Quitting Opiates
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose, or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Hi Matt
Before you answered I took 5 manga dang 00 capsules of Keaton and felt 100% better for about 5 hours. If I try 4 pills today and I feel better I will cut down. When I try to stop this say in two weeks will I go right back to the paws. Will it be a little easier or will I. Ow contend with both detox. Thanks
Gigi
Depending on how much kratom you take and how often, once you discontinue it you might feel withdrawal symptoms.
Stop now. I wouldnt say stop and never use it again because some days a pain pill can come in handy. But now that youve discovered an herbal way of dealing with pain i would suggest you have some kratom handy instead of those devil drugs. Ill take kratom before any opiate again.
I was heavily addicted to herion for the past two years. Ive tried to quit at least four to five times. I would just stop because i didnt like the toll it took on my body. I would always quit for about thirty days and go right back because of the ever present cravings. The first week was always hell for me amd i dreaded the withdrawals this time. I was snorting at least a half a gram of good grade herion a day. I stopped all of a sudden and my body went throigh severe withdrawal. I needed help, i was crying and all over the place. I even called a drug detox to admit myself into cause my cravings and my withdrawals was so intense. Then i read this forum. I went to the smoke shop here in town and bought an ounce of kratom because it was the weekend and for some reason drug rehabs dont take junkies on weekends. I took only six grams of kratom my first time. And God i felt like my old self before the opiates. I always said if i could just get past the dopesickness i can stop herion. Its been 74 hours since my last use of opiates and i dont crave nor am i feeling any sickness! My sleep is still not there yet but 90% of my withdrawal is gone!!!!!!! It would normally take me weeks to feel like i do in days! I jog every morning followed by an intense workout and i only see myself gettin better. Now im just taking 9-12 grams a day and I feel Great!!!!! I dont even think aboit herion. The mental battle i use to go through is just not there anymore. I feel 100% confident that herion is my past. Man if i done this before i wouldnt have been suffering for years!!!! It relly works better than suboxone and methadone. I feel free from that deathly grip. They really need to make kratom a regular thing to use with addicts cause like me im sure people wanna quit but are afraid of the month of total hell. That mental battle you have with yourself just isn’t there anymore. I feel like me again thanks to this forum. THANK YOU FOR SAVING MY LIFE!
Hi Dandre
I’m glad you feel better. I too took 4 Kratom pills today and feel so much better but I’m terrified to hav to withdraw from this now
That’s awesome! I did the Kratom thing a few years back and it helps. But a stern warning to anyone reading this. DO NOT TAKE KRATOM FOR TOO LONG!!!!
You will find yourself right back in hell. Use it to get off of the real opiates and then get off of Kratom FAST! Remember the Thailand government considers Kratom a narcotic right there in its native land. The Thai govt ordered all the trees cut down and burned back in the day. It is a heaven-sent plant, but just ye take heed to this warning. GOOD LUCK ALL
Thailand made it illegal when the price of opium got too high and they were losing tax money because everyone switched to kratom. They have since admitted this fact
The doctor would have to prescribe you the patches. As for your other question, people typically don’t do the kratom with Vitamin C method, as the kratom is really unnecessary going that route. But the rest of the stuff are often all taken together. However, one must always ask a doctor first to make sure it is safe for them.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Hi Jesse,
A lot of people I’ve talked to said that taking supplements right away during the taper helped the process out a lot. If I were having to taper ever again, I would use supplements, especially DLPA, because I believe it would help me reduce symptoms from tapering, and it would allow me to even taper a bit quicker than not using supplements. I honor you for the passion to help others as well. Take care.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
i didnt have any symptoms form tapering, it wasn’t until i stopped and i got down to the tiniest corner of the film.i took over 26 weeks to taper form a 1/2 of a film..
great blog by th way. thank you
Thanks! I appreciate that.
hello matt a
as I wrot a rather long intro about my addicitin. I could use some input, tha I wont hoold you responsable to. I just took my last 8mg of sub. HOw do I wait untill i take the kratom? thats if I can find som arond me here in mass. I alos have some vicodine I can take to help with the withdraws. I know everyone is defferent. but I wish I had some kind starting point to try. I ws taking subs for 2 years. the irst year i only needed 4mg not even. but the clinic kept pushing to stay on them . blame myself for listing, should of walked out.
Hi I just approved your comment and responded telling you to please email me, because I think there is a lot going on here, and I don’t think the comment space is enough for things I would like to say. Here is my personal email address finchy444@yahoo.com
hello matt
I use 8mg of suboxone for the last 2 years., I had a small vicodine addicion. I had a hard time with physical withdraws. Unfortantly i went to a sub clinic that put me on 8mg for a year, I should of stuck to my original plan and used it only for a few weeks to get over the vicodine withdraws. but the clinic kept pushin the 1 year plan. Now im going on 2 years . 8mg of subs dont do it for me anymore.
Im done with the subs. I cant tapper, everytime i tried i just gave up. I need to go cold turkey. every site I read say you have to taper before you jump. I took my last strip today. I cnnot refill untill 10 days and tired of chasing it on the street when I run short. the clinic wont up my script. they keep accuson me of selling it saying Im at my ceiling. but that is bs. The clinic only has on doctor on staff and the others are just counslers that act more lke parole officers than drug counslers. I guess they have to be carefull. But you cant treat everyone the sames. like any drug your body become ammune. regardless. I hate the idea of being controlled by subs. I dont do street drugs, like herion,coke, pot etc. I got hooked on vicodine from chronic pain. then was cut off by my doctor after i told them i was addicted. hence the sub clinic. I was mis led by the subclinic into being told it only takes a few days to get off suboxone.
Suboxone may have some bennifits for some, but its not a cure for all addictions. I feel trapped and dont know what to do. I live in massachusetts their isnt any clinics t help with sub additction in the state. Every clinic I called pushed suboxone. what to do???????
Please email me at finchy444@yahoo.com and we can discuss this. I’m here to help!
Hi Matt- Do you think its possible to have dependency on 2-3 grams a day on mang da? I have chronic back pain that my Dr. Thinks is stress related so I don’t need tramadol. I used mang da to get off tramadol and 1 year later Im exhausted all the time. If I don’t use kratom I get horrible leg cramps at night, like w/d. I need my energy back so I thought I’d get off mang da completely. I take 6 pills/ day at 750 mg for 2 pill dose so 2,250 mg is about 2 ounces/ day? I know you’re not a Dr. But have you heard of people getting w/d from Such a low dose? Thank you!
That is a low dose, however, you’ve been taking it for 1 year, so I see why this could be causing you withdrawal. Also, it could just be the chronic pain, and not w/d symptoms. Your doctor said they think the pain is stress related, and I want you to know that I recovered from 3 years of chronic pain, which I finally found out was not structural, but in fact do to repressed emotions and tension.
Please do some research on the following to see if this could be what you experiencing:
Tension Myositis Syndrome (TMS)
Matt, first let me say thank you for putting in so much of your time to help us.
Today is my 12th day without suboxone. Its been rough and im still feeling quite down and lethargic, but trying to hang in there. I purchased some white, green and red kratom and use it for the worst days. It does definitely help! However, im concerned that my seven years on suboxone and the 2 years previos on opiates has damaged my body and brains ability to heal itself and that I will feel this way forever.
Im taking all the aminos and vitamins you suggest along with daily cardio. Is there a certain doctor or specialtist that can run tests and can tell me when my chemistry will be back to normal or if I may have damaged it too bad? Im very worried.
Derrick,
That’s so awesome to hear about this progress you have made! Doctors can always run tests and that could help. I don’t think anyone is too damaged from opiates to get back to normal. It just takes time, even when doing healthy things. Stick it out and don’t give up no matter what!
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose, or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Hi Derrick,
I agree with Matts comment. Its really a time thing and you must commit to being clean continually. I’ll preface to say, I’m an extreme case, but it took a good 2 years for the fog to lift and start feeling normal again. I was on heavy opiates for 7 years and mild ones, Darvon for depression, prior to that. So you will get better! I too, felt the hopelessness and that damage was permanent especially with regard to dopamine and endorphin production. I had horrendous anhedonia and clarity of thought and focus was so difficult. It seemed I got headaches every time I tried to use my brain! But eventually it improved….seemed like no progress for me for 18 months, then within the next 3 to 6 months I experienced vast improvements.
As far as neurochemistry balance tests go, I don’t believe they exist, based on my experience, but maybe they have developed some by now. Certainly a PET scan of the brain can give you activity information. I found MRI’s and CT scans useless ( except for identifying strokes/hemorages/tumors), but for me, just indicated a normal aging brain.
Hello Matt,
I’m sure toy get people on here in panic mode asking the same questions over and and over again so here’s one more to add to your list! I’ll sum it all up for you. I’m a 30 year old female weighing in at about 105 lbs. I had an injury last June 2014 started on Tramadol 4-6 a day then to Norco 10/325 4-7 a day just depending. I am not a recreational drug user, I don’t drink either. My body has become so dependent on this crap (always from a script) and I’m done! I work full time and have a family. I ordered 4 oz of Kratom (Permium Bali) and pray that this will help. I’ve gone through withdrawals twice and only made it about a day maybe two and took more pills. Your post has helped me in so many ways. My father is an addict has almost died several times in and out of rehab also. I think perhaps we psych ourselves out more than need be. Thanks again for your article.
Matt,
Took your advice and used kratom (2 x 4grams per day ) and got off Oxycodone with a taper system. Now I want to stop Kratom. Have been using it, same dosage , for about 5 weeks. suggestions. Thx, Jake
Sorry for late response, but your comment was sent to spam folder. Most people on kratom taper off it, take supplements and exercise to reduce symptoms.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Hi Matt,
You are a life saver!! I am on day 3 with no Oxycodone tablets. I was prescribed the medication to manage lower back pain after two disc fusion surgeries. i am told I will always have lower back pain and thought I could not live with out the pain meds. after a year I realized the meds were negatively effecting every aspect of my life. Ive been through w/d so many times and thats what has kept me from quitting them.
I bought some kratom from the local smoke shop. they are called Thai and the vendor tells me each capsule is 16 but I dont know what that means. I took 3 of them on the 1st day of w/d and 3 on the 2nd day and 3 again today. I have suffered no w/d at all.
My concern is that if the Kratom binds to the opiate receptor and I stop taking it, wouldnt I then begin to suffer the w/d? Can you please tell me what is the next step for me?
Sorry so late to respond, but your comment was sent to the spam folder for some reason. Anyways, I will be checking this folder daily to avoid this happening again. Since the kratom binds to opioid receptors, then yes, once you come off kratom there will likely still be withdrawal, however, mixed with the supplement I talk about it should be much less severe than a cold-turkey detox from stronger stuff!
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Hey Matt!! I’ve Comecon some of your other blogs and I just want to say you’re AWESOME! I love your approach to beating addiction and wish there were more counselor sour there like you. I’ve been on a slow taper coming off 60 mgs of methadone for the past year and honestly have had little success. Every time I get to around 30 mgs I end up increasing because of withdrawals and fear of relapse on heroin. But I’m so tired of methadone. I feel like I’m in a cloud all the time and I just want out! In your opinion how long do you think I should use the Kratom for and do u suggest I go cold turkey off methadone or use the Kratom while tapering
Sorry that’s supposed to say kratom not Keaton!! Silly spellcheck!
I’ve seen worse haha! I went in there and changed it for ya 🙂
Hi Kate,
Thank you for the kinds words. I know methadone is a very powerful medication, and most people coming off it with kratom benefit from using the kratom for 2-3 weeks. Exercising with kratom, supplements, nutrition, and a support group can help to reduce symptoms from coming off methadone. And if it were me, I would just go cold-turkey off that dosage of methadone, as kratom is strong enough to work for that situation.
If you have any questions, please, feel free to ask me and I can assist you further. Good luck!
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose, or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
I am using Kratom and it works. Without it I would never make it
Excellent! So glad to hear it’s working for you, and I sincerely appreciate you leaving a comment about your experience Debbie. Take care.
Does Kratom and Buprenorphine have any cross tolerance? I am tapering Suboxone and have been using Kratom for the rough days. Am I just postponing my suffering? After bupe, will I just need to go through Kratom WDs? Thanks for your time.
Kratom is not an opiate, however, it IS an opiod-agonsit, so it binds to the same opioid receptors in the body that buprenorphine binds to. Thus, while the kratom has been helping you on the rough days, your body is still getting extra opioid-agonist dosages due to the kratom. Some people have told me how well kratom has worked for tapering off Suboxone, and if done correctly, I think there is good possibility there.
I encourage you to read the following article that may help you get off Suboxone:
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose, or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
I love your article! Best I’ve found since I started my research two weeks ago. Unfortunately my husband has already started the kratom regiment before I came across you article. After stopping 10 mg of methadone, he has already started taking strains like Red Vein Thai, Bali, Meang Da, and recently put an order in for Horned Red Vein. He has only been taking anywhere from 4-8 grams. First day he did great with minimal symptoms, but last night had much trouble sleeping, I’m assuming he needs a higher dose, right? How does the strains he’s been taking compare to Red Vein Borneo? And do you have any alternatives to the Elimadral? We really want him to succeed with this transition but we are on a budget and Elimadral is some what costly. Your advice is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance
Matt,
After ten years of oxy and now down to .25 mil of suboxone the withdrawals are daily and constant. Thank God for the Kratom. Today is first day without suboxone and I am sure I will get through it.
@Matt Finch – I am in the process of taporing off of methadone right now. At my rate I will be off in about 3-4 months. I want to follow your advice, but I am curious if there is anything different to do with taporing method rather than a “cold turkey” method. Can you please reply with your advice and steps regarding the taporing method?
Thank you so very much for helping so many of us. I am incredibly excited to begin a life free of drugs. I want my life back (and not spendind $170 bi-weekly will also be a huge plus) and I feel that this just may be the answer to help me more easily achieve this.
While tapering off methadone, one could simply use small doses of kratom “here and there” as needed whenever withdrawal symptoms from methadone arise. For instance, you might not take any kratom for days, then one day you might wake up at 4 am with cold-sweats and minor withdrawal symptoms from lowering methadone dose. One could simply mix a teaspoon or more of kratom into a drink and the withdrawal symptoms might go away completely.
If the symptom is anxiety, one could use a red vein kratom that is sedating, and if the symptom is fatigue, one could use a white vein kratom which enhances energy somewhat. Everyone is biochemically unique, so different approaches will work differently for different people
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Would I be able to mix it with something else other than grapefruit and get the same affects??
Turmeric powder, cayenne pepper, or watercress have been used as potentiators as well.
Had knee replacement after years of pain from knee injury. Took about 25 mg of hydrocodone for two years and was prescribed oxycodone by my knee replacement Doctor. On 30 mg of oxy now and would like to get off altogether. What is your advice for what I read is a small amount of Oxy. THx
Hi Jimmy,
It’s usually beneficial to start off with small dose of 3 grams kratom to assess how it affects you. If that is not enough to eliminate w/d symptoms, one could raise dose until they feel it.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Jimmy, my story is almost same. 13 knee surgeries finally ending it two total replacements. At peak I was on 850 mil oxy a day. Once I tapered down to 30 mils I just couldn’t go any farther. That when the suboxone was prescribed. Been a long time battle for me. Both medications I tapered down real slow and now have found a miracle ” Kratom” I have used Matts suggested remedies along with Kratom and I function and go to work every day. It don’t matter how much you are taking. It’s not easy but go slow and buy some supplements.
Is kava kava extract the same ?
No Courtney, it is very different. Please read the following article:
How To Use Kava Kava For Opiate Withdrawal
I was on 1 mg of methadone when I read ur posts. Kratom has been a miracle for me! It gives me energy, optimism and a mind set I haven’t had for years. Now I’m freaked out that I’m now going to physically addicted to this. Are u saying you should only take kratom for 7 days? I have been on it for 2 weeks now. I’m not sure what to do.I don’t want to lose all this energy which last for hours.not like oxycodone did. Because that doesn’t. I also want to stay morally right with God. Any input!?
Everyone’s situation is different. The longer a person stays on kratom, the more the body builds a dependency to it. Do what you feel is right for your situation. I’m glad it’s been helping you.
Matt,
THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! I was up all night last night day 3 withdrawal from norcos. This morning I purchased Kratom Mae hang and took it like you instructed and I feel AMAZING!!!
That’s wonderful!
Hi, I’ve been a opiate addict for 7 years started with oxy then was cut off turned to heroin 3 years ago using iv. I finial had enough and admitted I had a problem to my family had great support, went to impatient rehab detox there, before that I worked off shore and detox cold turkey more than I would have like to but this method sounds great I’m back in my addiction and I’m wanting out bad I was 45 days clean and on day 45 I felt like it was still day 1 is there and non addictive medications that anyone can recommend to take the edge off? I want this so bad I went to meetings daily when I got out of treatment worked steps had a sponsor, and was still fighting it. I guess what I’m asking is will the kartom help on the rough times when nothing else is with cravings? HELP
Hi Cody,
Kratom is not the best plant for use during rough times because it activates your opioid receptors. It is good for the acute withdrawal, but for post-acute withdrawal symptoms, I encourage you to read the following article:
How To Stop Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome From Opiates
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Matt,
I have to ask you about the suboxone-link on your site, as I find it to be a contradiction?
I have tried to get off the “medicine” more than once and find it difficult to say the least!
Where did you get your addiction specialist education? I think that would help me SUBSTITUTE my habits.
Hi Michael. I have something called Google Adsense on this website, and various companies place ads there. Some are natural remedies, some are Suboxone, some are treatment centers, etc.
I believe in different approaches for different people. I like to have every option available, because certain people will benefit from medications, while others will resonate more with a more natural approach. While working as a counselor at an Opiate Treatment Program, I saw Suboxone and even methadone literally save peoples lives. Many were unable to get their lives on track, then started the medications, and got their families back, jobs back, etc.
There is no single one approach that is right for everyone. I’m also a member of a Suboxone Taper Support group on Facebook. I’ve talked to so many people there, and though Subs can be difficult to come off, the vast majority are very glad they used the medication to stop their out of control lives of addiction.
If you think it would substitute your habits, then don’t take it. Since you have tried to get off the “medicine” more than once and find it difficult, it sounds like you found something you don’t want. Good for you. I too found it difficult to get off until I took a combination of natural supplements and medications, then it was easy.
I wish you the best of luck with everything Michael. Take care.
Im considering taking kratom. I’ve been taking methadone intravenously twice a week, Monday and friday, 120mg each time. I will Dib and dab with other opiates periodically throughout the week. Sometimes I just stick to the methadone. This has been going on for a year or more. I’ve had a very extensive past with opiates. I cant seem to kick the methadone….and i have work Monday through friday. Do you think I should alter anything from your article? W/D are really rough on me….atleast I feel they put me down more than other people. Also, medical marijauna seems to take immediate symptoms away fir a bit. Any input would be appreciated!
Usually people who are on methadone alter the approach on this article to fit their own needs. Since methadone has a much longer half-life than short-acting opioids, I’ve heard from readers that they used kratom for 2-3 weeks, tapering down the whole time, to reduce symptoms. Also, some have used for much shorter periods to come off methadone. There are many approaches to coming off opioids. My suggestion is to listen to your body, customize your plan for your own needs, and be 100% dedicated to quitting. Take care.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
What is the difference between Red Vein Borneo and Enchanced Malay for opiate withdrawl?
capsules or powder better?
Red strains are more sedating, white strains are more stimulating, and green strains such as Malaysian (Malay) fall somewhere in the middle, and can be stimulating or even sedating depending on your own unique biochemistry, and how much kratom you take in a single dose.
I’ve been on and off (mostly on) opiates since high school, so about 7 years now. It’s been my krutch thru the rough times and a habit I could never seem to break. It has taken me to the worst places a person can go and has changed me. Last year when I was pregnant and on pain pills, I ended up going to a methadone clinic… I was told it was the best thing for the baby. However, I beg to differ with that….I quit going after I had the baby thinking I could get off methadone easily. Boy, little did I know. I had no idea what a monster methadone would be to get off of. I started taking pain pills again for the methadone withdrawals, thus getting right back on the pain medicine again. It was a never ending cycle. Long story short, I went back to the clinic again, after I decided my battle with fighting to get high everyday wasn’t one I was going to win. I knew It would end up killing me. So, here I am day 5, methadone free. It doesn’t seem like much but for me IT’S EVERYTHING. This Kratom detox has offered me the hope I never had. I thought I would end up right back on pills or worse because of these withdrawals, which of course are Hell. I haven’t slept at all in 3 nights but hey, I can lose a few nights of sleep if it means I’ll be off everything I’ve wanted so badly to get away from for so long. Good luck to everyone out there going thru this! No matter what dosage, how long you’ve been on what, I assure you, if you have the right mindset and start using this kratom detox, there’s no way to lose. Much Love, Ali H. xoxo
Update. Over a month suboxone free and I feel half normal so far? I wanted to say dropping your dose is not a bad idea before trying kratom. I went cold turkey from sub’s to kratom and haven’t looked back. I take one teaspoon of red vein in the morning, then another around noon. Last dose at 4pm and then no more because it is hard to sleep on kratom. I have had no serious side effects and would recommend to anyone in the opiate fight. Hope this helps someone?
Thanks for the update! Sounds like things are going really well. Good for you, and thanks for commenting on your experience using kratom. I’m sure it will help the other readers. Take care.
wondering if the same plan would be used when trying to get off herion
Yes.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
so you did go cold turkey, i wonder how YOu doing? im getting ready to start my journey and really scared. Im a a 50 year old man that dont back down to anything too. thank god my wife loves me, becasue she has been carrying the water for a long time now
Thank you for posting this. I have the kratom pills white rabbit Maeng da it was the only kind the gas station had Not sure how many pills to take at once. I’m going to try to get off Percocet
Most pills have 500 mg per capsule. I wish you the best of luck getting off Percocet.
How many should I try at once? I am so so scared !! I have been to the er called the crisis line no one said they could help me because they say it’s not life threatening. It’s so sad that no one will help but yet they wonder why it’s such a problem! Thank you
Most people start with about 3 grams on an empty stomach to assess their tolerance. After that, people typically take 3-10 grams per dose or more.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
That’s so awesome you were able to get off methadone way to go!
Awesome article! I have been addicted to opiates since 08 after a fall. Took more and more. Blew the my script in like a week. About to try kratom now as I’ve been in w/D for 36 hrs. Gabapentin helps the sweats but I’m really hurting and extremely depressed. Hope it helps! Waiting for a call back from a detox facility but honestly I’d rather do it at home. I’m a mom. And I don’t want to leave my kids. Wish me luck!
Gooooood luck Melanie!!!!!!! You can do it!!!
It lasts different periods of time for different people. Usually the fatigue takes a few weeks to get over, however, there are things you can do to speed up the process. The supplement could help, but you stated you can’t afford it, so you might try some free or less expensive natural remedies. Please refer to the following article:
2014 Opiate Withdrawal Remedies Review
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
hi, i have been on subs for 2 1/2 years.. started at 8mg went up to 12mg & tapered down to 2mg pretty rapidly (about 3 weeks), my goal was to be off subs completely for elective surgery i had coming up on july 30. well……………. i got down to 1mg & then just pieces – but didnt want to go into surgery in w/d and/or be judged by my surgeon or surgery team – i work at the hospital where my surgery took place. i bought some kratom, calm support, and dlpa to prepare to come off subs completely. i even was able to score some gabapentin (not many though, i didnt want to put the person out that was helping me and have them be in need due to my selfishness). the thing is im scared!!!!! i feel normal on the subs, that is not the issue – my issue lies in the “prison” im still in, if i dont get my meds i get sick, period. also the money is ridiculous. $200 just for my dr visit alone every month. anyways….. i didnt get much sleep last night – like 2 hours….. some uncomfortableness from my surgery i believe and overexerting myself yesterday! so its been since thrsday that i havent taken any subs, but i have taken a few percs, gabas to help with my surgery recovery – not to get high mind you…… well today i finally tried some kratom, just under a gram in some oj.. i didnt even finish the cup, i dont know if its due to only having 2 hours of sleep or what but i couldnt even see straight – ihave tried to nap today to no avail – i think due to w/d since i took last 2 percs this am to knock out restless legs and try to get some rest. i just brokedown this evening and took 1mg subs….. i know right?! idiot! here it goes though, my guilt that im listless all day like a cracked out zombie and am virtually useless – cant play with my daughter or do anything so i thought well maybe just a few more days i can be “normal” ……but i know its wrong – so i guess my question was do you think that my extenuating circumstances are what caused my vision to be blurry, and to feel out of body??? b/c honestly im a little freaked out about kratom now……… but i really want to be done with the subs & i dont see any other way to “tough out” through w/d’s, i work full-time, and have a 6 yr old to take care of….. my partner though is pretty supportive of me getting off subs……….he really doesnt understand about the w/d’s though, he just tells me to suck it up lol (if only it were that easy)
That is a very weird reaction from such a small dose of kratom…less than a gram is basically nothing, and I certainly wouldn’t even feel anything if I took an amount that low. Perhaps it’s that it mixed with something else you are taking. Or the lack of sleep, or who knows. I would certainly be afraid to try it again if that happened to me. Getting off Suboxone is next to impossible if you can’t take time off work or raising children. Please refer to the following article, as I believe it could greatly benefit you:
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion
I have heard from many people that Kratom simply prolongs the inevitable, and using it just delays your withdrawal, I’ve been tapering off subs for months, down to 0.25 a day and I’m fine at that dose after being on 8mg a day for 4 years but I have a week off of work starting Friday and I’m jumping ship, I am VERY scared to try this and it prolong an already lengthy withdrawal process, but I really want to try it so please help do you have proof that these claims are false?
Kratom is gentle step down from powerful full opioid-agonists to a natural, partial opioid-agonist. It helps the body to transition off strong drugs without going into shock from a cold-turkey withdrawal. However, it is not a magic bullet. Once you get off the kratom, you will still feel symptoms, that is why I recommend the powerful supplement in this protocol. Many people have had great success using this protocol or their own personalized version of it. Read through the comments and you will find success stories. Take care.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Yes, Kratom delays the withdrawal, rather than making it disappear. The first time I tried Kratom, I foolishly believed that all I had to do was take it for 2 weeks, until the opiates were out of my system, and then stop. Nope – I just went into full WD, which was clearly from the opiates and not from 2 weeks of using Kratom. However, I’m not here to tell you that Kratom is useless. As Matt says, it helps your body to transition from the powerful drug to something much more mild. My new strategy was to use Kratom for a long period of time – 6 months, all told. I felt some WD symptoms from time to time during this 6 months, even felt myself going into classic PAWS (depression, insomnia, nightmares etc.), but Kratom got me through. Then I began to taper down the Kratom, with much less pain than tapering or withdrawing from my previous DOC. So, two things: 1. it really does help your body transition away from the more powerful drugs. 2. it’s a long term therapy, not something you can do for a few days or weeks and expect to magically avoid the consequences of your previous actions. I recommend it wholeheartedly, but you do need to have the right expectations. Don’t jump off suddenly, a few days or weeks into the Kratom course, or you will feel like you wasted your time (which isn’t true).
Great input Robert. I also want to inform you that I’ve received a ton of comments and emails from people only using kratom for 4-7 days with other supplements and have indeed came off opiates with minimal symptoms in that time. Thus, when you tell people it is a “long term therapy,” while that works for many people (including you), I assure you I’ve heard from many people that did it within 1-3 weeks no problem.
First off, thank you Matt for the work you do for us . This site got me started on my kratom journey and I love you for it. I have tried quitting suboxone for the last five years with no success. I’ve been on the all kratom plan since July 7th 2015 from 8mg of subs. No taper (useless in my opinion), and I’m doing well. I will update more in the next few weeks, but what I did want to say is that… Kratom is the only tool that worked against the suboxone fight for me. I though I’d never find my way out and now I have. It still comes with hard work and living/eating right is key. For all of you in the heroin struggle, give kratom a try. ?
I’m so glad you were able to get off and stay off Suboxone for 3 weeks now! And what you said is very correct…living/eating right is key. Well done! And thanks leaving a comment. I know this help some folks. 🙂
im curious , did itwork, ? you jumped at 8mg? thats where im at, Im ready to jump at 8mg now. I dont want to go to my sub clinic and beg for another script because i ran short. They need to cracked down on the these sub clinics , or they are going to have another epidemic like the oxy one that is finally gettin addressed. but the are replacing one problem with another one? who’s the smart one??
Everyone is different, of course… but an 8mg Bupe to “nothing” step-off seems pretty drastic. Your mileage may vary though, and you may be fine with it. I wish you luck if that’s the way you have to go.
When I tapered I went from 8 to 4 for two weeks, then 2 for two weeks, then 1 for to weeks, and I stepped off at that point with minimal WD symptoms. But again, it’s different for everyone, and, I didn’t know about Kratom then, either. I wish I had. I would have tapered earlier and gotten of the subs sooner. 😉
I AM NOT A DOCTOR OR HC PROFESSIONAL! It’s always best to check with a professional.
Thanks for the incredible update! Sounds like the taper is going really well, with just a minor issue of hot flashes and sweating. Really happy your detox plan is working. Looking forward to your next update, and soon you will be FREE from pain medications for LIFE! Take care.
This is truly an amazing herb!! If you know what it feels like to go through withdraws the pain, depression, shakes (hot & cold). Going cold turkey is dangerous, and I don’t recommend it unless you know your going to be strong. Kratom has helped me within the day. I want you to know that there is hope. A brighter is ahead.
Almost three hours in and my depression is gone. I am up doing thing around the house. I feel alive!
Way to go!!! Thanks for the update. Glad the kratom is working so well.
I will also update my progress. I started July 26th. Las night was the hardest pain I’ve felt in years. I went cold turkey 2 days ago. I am excited to brake this vice.
I’m also very excited for you. YOU CAN DO IT!
Hey Matt,
Thank you for this wonderful article. I have been on norcos and methadone for awhile know. I just started Kartom today. I stopped cold turkey. It’s extremely painful. I know the pay off is worth it.
Thanks.
Best of luck to you Mar.
I think it’s important for anyone considering Kratom to be fully informed and to carefully weigh this option for its pros and cons. I tried Kratom as a desperate measure when nothing else worked — not my first choice, but I would do it again in the same situation.
Recent research has identified 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-HOM) as the source of most of Kratom’s opioid agonist effect. This chemical is found in tiny amounts in Kratom, about 300 parts per million (ppm), but it has opioid strength of 17 times hydrocodone.
Do the math, and you’ll find that taking say 4 grams of Kratom is the equivalent of popping 4 Norco 5’s, so no wonder your withdrawal got better! Although no one has confirmed yet that 7-HOM has 17 times the perceptible analgesic effect of hydrocodone, it’s still good for pain. That being said, there are also 40 other alkaloids in Kratom that may have positive or potentiating effects.
My experience after 30 days of taking 10 grams of Kratom per day, first for primary withdrawal and then for the subsequent PAWS and pain, is that it works well but I now have a mild physical dependency and am slowly building tolerance. I don’t feel any hint of euphoria or addiction potential at this dose. When the time comes, I’ll follow a tapering plan and phase out the Kratom, with mild withdrawal expected.
My Girlfriend and I have been taking norcos for about 4 months now. Unfortunately i cant go a day without them.. I take about 3-4 throught the day (mostly halves or one at a time) I am mentally over taking them but the little WD feelings i get after about 2-3 hours after i take my low dosage, i know, is a small taste of what it feels like to stop them. When using Kratom (for my dosage of norcs) what dosage do you reccommend so im not taking more Kratom then neccessary.
In the article I write about starting with 3 grams for your first dose, to see how if affects you. This appears to be safe amount to experiment with. Good luck to you both, and if you need any assistance along the way please reach out to me…I love to help.
Hi Matt.
I ordered the Super Red Vein Borneo as suggested and it came in the mail yesterday. However, on the outside of the bag it states “to be used as Bulk Botanical Exfoliant only”. Does this mean I cannot use it with the grapefruit juice and ingested? I sure hope not as I already opened the bag (prior to noticing the message) and it is quite pricy. Thanks.
Hi Randall,
Many kratom companies do this to prevent them from responsibility if the user ingests kratom. Everyone uses kratom orally for either opiate withdrawal, pain relief, mood-boost, or other reasons. By putting the statement on the outside of the bag, as well as on the website, it prevents or at least lowers the chances of legal action against a company.
I also have a disclaimer on my website about this:
Matt is not a doctor. The statements, recommendations and products referred to throughout this site have not been evaluated by the FDA. They are for informational purposes only, and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you have a health condition or concern, consult a physician or your alternative health care provider. Always consult a medical doctor before modifying your diet, using any new product, drug, supplement, or doing new exercises.
Hi Matt,
I have been reading different threads on this site and Kratom sounds like it may be a good match for me. I have been using Vicodin and Percocet for almost 2 years. I had some back problems in the past but my use is primarily recreational and it just got out of hand. (I realize as I write that how absolutely ridiculous that sounds, I chose to take them for no good reason, but it’s the truth) The past couple months I have gotten up to 10-15 10 mg pills a day. I am exhausted, emotionally, physically, and financially. I ran out a few days ago and was shocked at how sick I got and finally realized what I had been doing to myself. I am ready to stop. I can’t take it anymore, for the first time when I got more pills after being out I didn’t feel relieved, I felt guilt. I know I won’t be able to handle cold turkey without some aid. My question for you is what your recommendation would be for me to taper while using Kratom. (Dosage for both) I have 50 pills left to work with and would prefer not to get anymore if possible. Thank you for this site! I have been trapped in this addiction for far too long. It’s ruining my ability to enjoy my life. I struggle with anxiety as well and it is severely heightened when I have tried to stop taking the pills in the past.
If you have 50 pills left, and you usually take 10-15 per day, an example taper could look something like this:
Day 1: 8 pills
Day 2: 6 pills
Day 3: 5 pills
Day 4: 4 pills
Day 5: 3 pills
Day 6: 3 pills
Day 7: 3 pills
Day 8: 2 pills
Day 9: 2 pills
Day 10: 2 pills
Day 11: 2 pills
Days 12 and beyond 1 pill until they run out. Or you could even go down to half a pill as well.
As for the kratom usage, one could take kratom first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, then a smaller dosage in the afternoon, then the pills at nighttime so it’s easier to sleep. This is how I would do it, at least, but everyone is different. As for the kratom dosage, people respond to the different dosages and strains in different ways. You could try a 3 gram dose and see how that works, then if it’s no enough and your body tolerates it well, increase to up to 6-10 grams or more, using the least amount possible to get relief.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Thank you so much! I have the Kratom coming today and am starting this today, I will check in and let you know how it goes. I have never been able to stop due to the withdrawals, especially at night, so your suggestion of saving the pills until night seems like it would work especially well for me. I am so thankful for this thread and for the hope of stopping this awful cycle I have been in. I have some time off work right now so it is the perfect time to be able to do this. Thank you for your advice and for giving me hope.
You’re welcome! And the fact that you have some time off work is perfect. The only way I was able to finally get off opiates several years ago was because I no longer had work, so I literally just took it easy for about 3 weeks. I’m really glad you’ve got some hope. Take care.
Do you think you will do a tapering off with kratom article?
It’s on my list of articles to write, though it’s a looooooong list, and I’m writing a book on opiate recovery right now; so it might be several months before I write that particular article.
Thank you!
You’re welcome!
Wow I cannot believe you would indorse KRATOM ,It only prolongs the inevitable . You need to feel the highs and lows to move past this in any fashion .KRATOM only masks it unless you continue usage. I really could care less about the boo hoo’s knowing all to well about addiction. Most doctors call me a lifer .. Whatever that means,At 49 years old ,Many falls later this site gave me hope until reading the ins and outs of Kratom usage . I am sure you can come up with better solutions than this. Your site gives me hope and is indeed, insightful and hopeful except for this ! It is disappointing as hell ! Being a round the block more than a few times ,I can tell you your dead wrong on this people. I fear you will be like me in time to come . There is no quick fix to addiction ,Nor does it ever end just become endurable till the blow out. Risking a Kratom habit is down right dumb ,As my ever starting suboxone thinking it was a answer.
To each their own Slif.
Everyone should remind themselves that each individual human being is a unique biochemical entity — many things in common and many differences. Withdrawal is always a bad experience but for some it’s tolerable and others commit suicide. This site has hopefully something that will work or at least help for almost any withdrawal situation. Some people undergoing Suboxone withdrawal don’t have too much trouble and some are miserable — that’s me, days without sleep, terrible headaches, nausea, and relentless akathisia, I tried everything but ibogaine (and even researched and considered going to Cancun for that extreme option) to deal with Suboxone withdrawal and turned to Kratom in desperation — I didn’t know of its existence before this site, though now I know a lot (read at least 80 articles and papers, plus keep a detailed journal of my experience). Suboxone is a carefully-engineered insidious monster, and getting rid of it is job one. Kratom helps but it’s just a rest stop on the road to zero opioids. I’ll deal with tapering and eliminating Kratom next — it can’t and won’t be as bad as Suboxone.
It sure as hell worked for me. I bet you sit at the head of the table at NA meetings.
Haha i agree! I have been on methadone for three years and a extream pill popper for 10 years b4 that and its a safe bet. That we have all felt the “pain” as a matter of fact feeling the pain is more than likely the reason most of us have turned to some sort of drug in the first place! Dudes opinion is welcome and thank u for your concern however u should try to cut down on the bitter a little! Just a suggestion.
Xoxo
Zantek. Is a great potdntiator which will make u itch
A few comments on grapefruit juice (GFJ):
1. Before beginning this regimen, be sure to check if you’re taking any of the more than 85 prescription medications which are also affected by GFJ (see “Grapefruit-drug interactions” on Wikipedia and elsewhere). You might remember the effective, non-drowsy antihistamine Seldane, which had a particularly bad partnership with GFJ. The combination was found to be cardiotoxic and Seldane was subsequently pulled from the market.
2. If pressed for time and you need a short-cut, commercial GFJ (not from concentrate) should be nearly as effective as fresh. As recommended, freshly-squeezed GFJ is best since it contains the largest amount of the several chemicals responsible for potentiation. One of these (Naringin) is quite bitter and so citrus juice suppliers will sometimes tone it down with an enzyme, making the resultant juice more palatable but less effective for potentiation.
3. The effect of GFJ on metabolism can last up to 3 days. The resultant build-up is probably favorable for potentiation and shouldn’t be a problem given moderate consumption. If you need to start or resume any of the 85+ interacting medications, stop using the GFJ and allow for a 3-day washout.
Excellent information. Thanks for sharing Charlie.
What about kratom WD or addiction? How would one stp this natural plant once becoming dependant??
If you take kratom for too long, in large amounts, the withdrawal can be bad. One could stop this withdrawal the same way as they would stop oxycodone, hydrocodone, heroin, morphine, or any other opioid: tapering down to a low dosage, then using natural remedies and/or medications…and the same ones used for pills and heroin.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
For full-agonist opioids with an acute withdrawal phase of 5 to 7 days, there’s a fair chance that you won’t become dependent or addicted to Kratom. Suboxone is a different animal, with an extended acute withdrawal phase of around 25 days. You can end up taking Kratom 4 times a day for nearly a month and so have a good chance of developing a dependency. Some sources say that alternating various strains of Kratom will avoid dependency, but I cycled 5 strains faithfully and it didn’t seem to help.
My experience was that Suboxone withdrawal was intolerable and nothing I tried but Kratom helped, so decision made. As far as I can tell, Kratom withdrawal cold-turkey would be uncomfortable but tolerable. Some sites claim that tapering is 100% effective for avoiding Kratom withdrawal symptoms.
Great insight.
Im sorry if someone asked this and i missed it but does Kratom prolong methadone withdrawal?
Kratom has been used by many to come off methadone with much less symptoms. It acts as a natural step-down approach. A former patient of mine said she used kratom to get off a high dose of methadone without tapering, and said it reduced almost all of her symptoms. Coming off kratom in this way is usually preferable to coming off methadone with nothing. But it’s important to not take kratom too long or in too high of dosages, or it will prolong withdrawal. Everyone is different, and there are a million ways to quit. This is just one of the many ways.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Thank you. I did wean off methadone to 5 mg before taking kratom after 15 yrs of nonstop opiate use. I am on day 13 since my last dose of methadone and take 1 teaspoon 3 times a day of super red vein borneo. Should i begin weaning off that or wait to be off methadone for 30 days. I tried last night to skip the kratom and i was kicking like crazy, shaking, etc and i took it and 10 min later was fine. I just dont want to depend on kratom but it may be bc i would still be in methadone withdrawal as i know it can last up to 30 days or longer. Any suggestions? Thank you.
Everyone is different, with unique biochemistry and situations. It all depends on your goals Mary. If you want to start weaning off then that’s up to you, but I also understand why you might feel taking it for 30 days will get you past the methadone withdrawal. The woman I wrote about in the article used kratom for 3 weeks after getting off a large dose of methadone. 80 mg or more I believe. She did well tapering kratom in this longer method. Listen to your body, see how it feels, adjust course as necessary.
Exercise and supplements can help you the most right now.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Hey Mary. Just saw your post. Very curious on how you came off methadone with kratm. I am on 40 mg methadone daily and really want to use kratom to withdrawal but I am terrified. Please let me know what you did. Thank you !
Hi William…what are you curious about?
Let me start by saying this a GREAT article. My wife has been slowly dropping her subutex dose which she had gotten down to 2mg before starting the kratom. Over the last month she has dropped her dose down to .75mg of sub and 6-8 grams of a kratom blend that works for her. ITs unfortunate but are choices for buying kratom are very limited because of where we happen to live now. Our state decided that kratom could be used to make meth so having it is a more than frowned upon, but we have managed to get around this thusfar do to some caring friends and vendors. Went out and got her some grapefruit juice today and will encourage her to use it in conjunction with the kratom starting later on in the week. Im worried that because sub takes so long to taper off of that she may end up having to deal with getting off of kratom later on but I suppose that better than where we are now. We are unable to afford the other day/nighttime OTC meds that you recommend but know other that have done it without , that said it would be nice to try and hopefuly we can get to the point where we can at least get some of the nighttime formula. One thing I would recommend would be to possibly include an alternate version of this detox plans geared towards those who have been on large doses of suboxone or subutex for long periods of time since I can say with a great deal of XP that it is a different monster altogether in my opinion. Anyway that aside its wonderful to see people helping people here and for this I applaud you for your efforts. Keep up the good work and I will be back to report on our story. On a footnote I have been taking sub for about 12 years , started at 24mg daily which is crazy in retrospect but that’s what my doc wrote me….. I have slowly stepped down myself but I fear I have a ways to go to get to a point where a reasonable amount of kratom will be effective in my case…. Im just happy at this point that its helping my wife. Good luck to everyone out there fighting this battle , I for one would like to see big pharma pay for what they have done to us using such large doses of sub , I guess we will see…… Peace
Hey Drake,
Glad things are going well for you guys! As for your request on an article for people that have been on Subs for a very long time, I just finished an epic article on this the other day:
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion
Thanks for leaving a comment, and I wish you guys the best of luck! Take care Drake.
I agree with you completely that “suboxone is a different monster”. Fortunately my suboxone peaked at 8mg/day — it was prescribed by my doc for chronic autoimmune pain, for which it seemed a miracle. Ten years later I learn the evils of suboxone and the shady backstory, and that gave me the will to get off of it. Now in day 19 of withdrawal, of all the things I tried from this site, Kratom provided withdrawal relief (oddly, the “gold standard” of benzos didn’t help me at all) plus adequate pain relief.
Your goal to taper way down before the Kratom is a wise choice in my opinion. You might also consider Matt’s comments about converting BRIEFLY to full-agonist opiates in your final phase — when I couldn’t sleep at all, even a single Vicodin was a rescue for the “itchy joints” symptom.
One possible encouragement for you — Suboxone has such a strong binding affinity for neurotransmitters that it totally displaces natural endorphins at doses above about 2mg/day, so when you get below that amount on your taper, your endogenous system at least starts having a chance to help you. In my case, I noticed a slight mood elevation when I got to 1.5 mg/day that continued to get better over the months as I tapered to 0.5 mg (in retrospect, I probably should have tapered even more before stopping). Maybe you’ll get that helpful effect, though when you get to total withdrawal, it may still be a shock.
Good luck.
I just re-read this page and noted the advice to start Kratom while tapering. I don’t mean to discourage that option — I just didn’t have any experience with it personally. It actually sounds like a good idea.
I’m in day 12 of suboxone withdrawal, though it seems like much longer, and unfortunately the regimens I’ve tried — tapering, vitamin C megadosing, Rx benzos, nutraceuticals, etc.– haven’t knocked out the worst of the withdrawal symptoms — until the kratom, which I had never heard of before this website. Being conservative and not a risk-taker, the kratom option was out of my comfort zone initially — frankly, the stuff has some major weirdness factors, such as the FDA doesn’t approve of it for human ingestion but apparently tolerates it unregulated for now, there are many strains and no standardization, and some sites use strange “code words” such as “aroma” and “soapiness” in their reviews. I respected Matt’s work though and was getting desperate, so I decided to try it, and now I offer some feedback that might help those who are considering it also.
Most importantly, it actually works, for me at least (and I’m an odd case). I followed a hybrid plan once I learned that the regimen here jumps right into a major dose of a strong kratom strain with a potentiator of grapefruit juice on top of that — it may be okay for you, but it was too much for me.
Yesterday I started with a “beginner’s guide” and a milder green vein strain, and eased up to 5g the first time — within an hour, malaise and fatigue were greatly lessened, I had a little extra energy, the creepy itchy joints abated completely, and last night I actually slept 6 hours straight — 2 hours had been the previous maximum. Greatly encouraged, today I jumped into the super red vein borneo protocol, and within an hour I was nauseous and had a headache, which have remained with me most of the day. (I knew it was what I call “neuro nausea” and had nothing to do with the GI system, and that there were 2 ways to fix it for me, either Remeron or Vicodin, but the Remeron exacerbates restless legs, so I took a single 5mg Vicodin for relief, which came quickly.)
The main take-away here, and you’ll see it throughout kratom sites and blogs, is that the effect of kratom varies over a huge range, with 2 dozen different strains, countless vendors, doses from 2mg to 20mg, different processing techniques, and each individual’s biochemistry. My experience says to be conservative and be prepared to experiment to find your sweet spot, and I believe this option will help all but the very toughest cases (who need ibogaine therapy).
Hey Charlie, I think maybe the reason this protocol made you nauseous with a headache is because it’s for someone coming straight off a habit during day 1 of acute withdrawal. Since you were on a pretty low dose of Suboxone, and didn’t take it for 12 days, that makes sense that the lower dosage of a less sedating strain worked better for you. I’m glad you found the sweet spot!
And thanks so much for sharing some really great information and tips with the other readers!!! I even added a new little section that has the part about using a little at first and experimenting with different strains like you suggested. Your experience will undoubtedly help anyone who reads it to have a better understanding how to use kratom for opiate withdrawal. I continue to learn things from you so keep your comments coming, they are much appreciated, as your knowledge is very valuable.
Take care Charlie.
Good point. My wife got off 75mg 1 year methadone habit with Red MD. After awhile she got severe headaches until we got the yellow Indo from Top Extracts. No headaches and she’s clean.
I know the FDA, DEA, and any other useless Gov agency will make it illegal since it works. Point is diff strains have diff affects on diff people. I do recommend Top Extracts because they always have what I feel I can count on. No tricks, buffers, or unknowns. Just my opinion.
Matt
I have a question for you. I’m currently using substance treatment for oxy addiction and feel like I’m ready now to come off the suboxone. I have tried going cold turkey and handle it fairly well with some mild withdrawals but always end up back on the sub because I’m an athlete and the withdrawals are still strong enough that they keep me from training which leads to frustration and disappointment because I know if I just take that little strip I could get back to it and so goes the ring around of addiction. We all know it that are addicted so I won’t elaborate.
My question is since I take the suboxone and it has naloxone in it does that prevent the Kratom from being effective if taken together or since Kratom is a opiate agonist does it effect different receptors in the neural binders? If I need to I can stop using the suboxone for couple days to clean the naloxone out of my system and then start using the Kratom. Just wondering if you would know if that’s even necessary or not.
I know you have other posts here on how to come off suboxone but I know not all forms of it like subutex have naloxone in them. So thought I might as well ask. Thank you so much for spreading such knowledgeable insite on this matter. I think it shows how terribly flawed western medicine practice is that there isn’t more exceptence of herbal remedies like this in common usage in addiction facilities across america. The big pharmaceutical companies have to much profit to be made off overpriced synthetic medicines that they alone regulate and they alone create that honestly only marginally helps fight off the beast they created and lied to the public about the seriousness of but keeps the user in the cycle of dependency. Pretty ironic ain’t it and I know pain killers really do help many people but they shouldn’t have lied about its addictiveness. Sorry I know this is not a political bashing board, I will get off my soap box now.
Again thank you for all you do!!
Hi Jt,
This is a great question. Thanks so much for posting it, along with part of your story. I relate to your story a lot. I remember trying to get off Suboxone with much difficulty in the past the first two times I tried. I worked as a cook at a busy restaurant in New York where I worked 6 days per week, so I could usually only make it 2-3 days, then I would need Suboxone because I couldn’t even get out of bed! My batteries were completely out of juice.
As for your question, I don’t believe Suboxone and kratom are effective together due to both the naloxone antagonist, as well as the high affinity of buprenorphine at the mu opioid receptor. So it seems kratom would not be effective. However, I am coaching someone that was using Kratom on a low dose of Subutex (just burprenorphine) and he said it was helping. You could always try it on Suboxone, and the worst thing that would likely happen is you don’t feel the kratom.
If it were me, I would just use kratom to get off Suboxone cold-turkey. Taken correctly, kratom is so strong many people have even come of methadone cold-turkey, so I wouldn’t worry about it! Take care.
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs
Hi Trevor,
Kratom is meant to be used for 4-7 days to step down off stronger drugs. Some people like the effects of kratom and continue to take it for longer, and as a result get addicted to it. 7 days of kratom, while tapering down after the first few days, is easier on the body than coming off cold-turkey. If you take too much it can get you super high, so some people end up abusing it. But if used responsibly for 7 days, the body doesn’t get addicted to it, though the mind might.
Hey Matt, I noticed you said “it’s best to taper with some real opiate if u have some and to combine that with Kratom during your taper???”.Now, want to keep it short: same as alot of people: had alot of pain was on alot of opiate meds hydro then oxy then lost doctor because of insurance and got stuck on the H guy because of this problem. Well, my BIGGEST QUESTION goes back to the tapering with a real opiate combined with Kratom.Well I weaned down to a small amount (2 bags/day) of The H guy and had some Norco so I started tapering with that and about 24 hours later- going pretty hard into WD (even with the Norco 10’s (2 an hour)) I added 9 grams of the Kratom at 1st I felt better BUT THEN I STARTED SWEATING COLD/HOT EVEN MORE?? I THOUGHT I WOULD FEEL LESS WD’S- LIKE U SAID? Should I just use up all the Norco’s 1st and then move on to the Kratom?? I know you said you came up with this plan but you never had a a chance to actually try it during your time… I’m just trying to figure out why when I added the Kratom to the Norco’s I seemed to get worst WD’s??? Please let me know because my supply is running low to use for WD’s now.
Thanks alot,
R
What strain of kratom did you purchase? Where did you buy it from? Could you still be in withdrawal because heroin is so strong and Norco 10’s are very weak compared to heroin? I’ve never heard of anybody taking kratom and getting worse withdrawal, though everyone has their own unique biochemistry, thus anything is possible. And you stated that at first the kratom made you feel better…how long before the sweating hot/cold flashes?
Hey Matt, sorry I didn’t check back right away because I didn’t think my post ‘went thru’ properly. Well, I basically started your plan exactly as you wrote. I bought the exact amount of Red Vein Borneo, u stated, except i got it from Kraken-Kratom since the site u recommended was out of stock at the time. It’s just I weaned down the h to nearly 1(bag) on the last day and then (since u mentioned it’s best to taper w a real opiate if u happen to have) I used Norco 10’s as needed and was definitely better than cold turkey but still pretty uncomfortable (surprisingly!?) so I figured (like u stated) to take a dose of the Kratom (about 9gms). It was about an hour I would say almost immediately ‘the hot/cold flashes-impossible to get comfortable’ which for me is the worst for me.. I have the feeling the best way to go would be to use all the Norco’s, as needed, and then move on to the full Kratom plan u layed out…BTW I even bought the grapefruits and used blender to blend it. I just can’t believe that after getting up to like 10 norco’s over a few hours (and weaning down the H to1/day) that u would still have such bad WD’s. The reason I say this is street H is that much stronger than say 3-5 norco’s at a time.Except the drowsiness is stronger but I would say Norco’s and even more so Oxy’s have more euphoria. And if u keep those to only taking every other day…u also will never get bad WD’s but with the big H guy u sure get terrible WD’s….Also, I should say been studying nutrition for over 20 years and nothing is strong enough for H WD’s. I woud say NAC is a must and should shorten your WD time (although your WD’s may get worse faster because it helps the liver (dramatically) increase the rate at which you detox all the ‘junk’ out of your system. And I noticed Elimindrol hadit in there and it does ( by my knowledge of all the ingredients) look by the best. It’s way to expensive but I would agree with you it help your body/brain get back into good shape a whole lot faster than if u didn’t use it. But I would say (unless you have ALOT OF MONEY TO SPEND) I would just use it towards the end but if u could afford from the beginning to past the end…? definitely do it..because it definitely get your body/brain right alot quicker along with eating great (as soon as u can actually eat!)
I am on day 4 following your plan coming off methadone. I only bought Elemidrol daytime. I take 1 scoop in the morning. I take 12g of kratom, 2x a day. My previous dose of methadone was 80mg. I tapered to 20mg then switched to this. So far I agree thst I only suffer maybe 10-20% of what a withdraw is usually like for me. I feel like laying in bed, but I still get all daily tasks done. If day 5-8 don’t get much worse than this (which they usually are for methadone).. It will be just.. amazing. Thank you for this article. Just to add, I got the same strain you recommended, incase it helps others.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with these natural remedies. This article has received a lot of comments, so I know how much it helps people when they read about this protocol working well for many people. The personal testimonials help to let others know there is hope. Again, I thank you. Take care.
Hey Matt this is K again. I wanted to come back and update my progress, and how I used your plan to come off methadone. I’m on day 14 now. After day 5, kratom 2x daily was not working. So I kept my 24g daily dose, but split it into 3, 8g doses and this was perfect. I want to note that I bought capsules and capped my kratom. I found it nearly impossible to drink kratom raw in any way. Drinking it raw made my stomach hurt, but once I pressed it into capsules I never got nauseated and the effects stayed the same. I could not reduce my kratom dose till day 10. Now I take 3g, 2x daily– at day 14. When I stopped taking the mid day dose, I got mild RLS and some anxiety. But being on a moderate dose of methadone for almost 4 years prior,and general opiate abuse for several years before the methadone, I figured I was still coming off that. When I stopped my mid day dose of Kratom, I took a valerian root and kava kava extract and that actually stopped the anxiety. My hope is to stop kratom completely in the next couple days. You do have to control your kratom and force yourself to taper down. This stuff is amazing in helping DTs, and sometimes I think the fear of going into WD has kept me on it. So if you use Kratom my advice is to taper it slow by gram and frequency, and get active and exercise. Exercising has truly helped me mid day when I don’t feel good. I hope my experience may help others. Thank you Matt for all your research here. Kratom is a miracle for withdraw, but you have to have the willpower to reduce Kratom quickly.
Thanks for the update K! It sounds like you really used this article to create your own customized plan that has been working quite well. Congratulations! Really stoked to hear that the herbs you took helped with anxiety. And most importantly, the exercise is such a fundamental ingredient to opiate recovery, I’m glad you’ve enjoyed these benefits it gives.
I sincerely appreciate you giving such a detailed update on what you did to achieve such amazing results. This comment will help a lot of people. I look forward to hearing about more of your victories soon. Take care.
Hey Matt, this is K again at day 21. This will probably be my last update, as I’m defiantly over the hump. I hope when ppl find your article they can work it into their lives, and the info you’ve given is an amazing outline for a plan that works. So I stopped kratom completely at this point a couple days ago. My last few doses were 1-2.5g, only as needed, usually once a day before bed. Even such a small dose helped at this stage, and allowed me to sleep solid for about 5 hours. So I’ve been kratom free for 2 days, last night I slept 4 hours straight, only dealing with mild anxiousness. A few things I want to note, I’ve been taking a lot of herbs, that I started using around day 15 or so that really helped in between kratom and low kratom doses. Here they are: 5-HTP
,Kava Kava
,Dopa Mucuna
,Valerian Root
,Magnesium Glycinate
,and Melatonin
+ L-Theanine
. These herbs help a ton, I feel genuinely happy and motivated here at day 21! Some days are better than others. But WD is only fleeting moments of uncomfortable skin, mild rls, and tiredness. Totally tollerable. And again– exercise.. exercise is the best thing I do all day, jogging 3 miles at a very slow pace and short walks inbetween. Anyone reading this just know if u can get yourself to jog to the point of exhaustion, you will feel AMAZING for hours. Make yourself do it. Exercise is as critical as the Kratom is!
Matt, again thank you for this article. Your time spent here has helped save my life…This plan has given my life and soul back. I feel amazing now. Ppl never give up. This plan works, tailor it and make it work for you!
K what an excellent custom protocol you designed! Thanks for the update…and I added links to the supplements you used so people could look them up easier. Those are some of my absolute favorites, and I’m glad it’s all working out for you. And thank you so much for emphasizing the importance of exercise. Let’s be honest, nobody wants to exercise coming off opiates, but as you’ve witnessed, it is VERY BENEFICIAL.
I’m planning on writing an entire article dedicated to this topic, as more people need to know the benefits. Again, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful comment K. You’re going to inspire a lot of people reading it. I’m so glad you now have your life and soul back…and feel amazing!!! If at any point in the future you would like to write a “Success Story” article for this blog, you are more than welcome to do so. I’ve had two submissions in the past month since I started this category and it’s going great. I think your story is exceptional, so if you want to share it with 30,000 readers per month (my blog traffic), just email me a copy of your story and I will post it.
My personal email: finchy444@yahoo.com
Hey Matt. To make a long story short, 7 surgeries, full shoulder recon and a double knee replacement has me physically dependent on dillaudid as I’ve been on it for 1 year. I’m in recovery and petrified of going through withdrawals coming off the meds. My surgeon insisted on tapering me off but I’m really struggling and got mixed up doing H to get rid of severe withdrawals from the reduced dillaudid. I’ve never done H but now am realizing how stupid that decision was. I’ve heard of kratom but am strapped for cash. So it’s either kratom or more H so as not to be sick. Just went back to work and don’t wanna lose my job (they don’t drug test). I want off the opiates. Please help!!!
Hi Rick,
This website is full of valuable information for getting off heroin and other opioids. If you cannot afford kratom, the following protocol is much less expensive for Vitamin C:
How To Mega-Dose Vitamin C To Stop Opiate Withdrawal
Hi Matt
Thanks for your reply. I will look into your suggestions. I am day two on kratom. Only had 2 hydrocodone yesterday and none at all today. Also taking passon flower. No real with withdrawal symptoms. Do have little agitation and a little sweating but only had first thing this morning. I do have some pain because I did work today. I only work part time as on Social Security disability for several years because of spine.
Must say very happy at this point how I feel today. Not sure if things are going to get worse throughout the week
You’re welcome Jane. Passion flower is on of my favorite herbs for coming off opiates. Sounds like things are going well so far. Good for you!
I have been on hydrocodone for over 10 years. I need to come off. Starting kratom today but still have chronic back pain from prior 3 surgical procedures. I heard kratom will help with the pain as well as withdrawal. I have read great things about kratom helping both. I have to work and don’t know if the withdrawal will interfere and be so bad I am unable to work. I have the kratom but do not have funds to buy anything else. What is your opinion. I have the maeng da kratom. How much do I start with. Concerned about withdrawal symptoms being intolerable
Thanks
Jane
Matt,
Thank you so much for all your work you’ve put into helping others get off these terrible drugs! I truly appreciate your open-mindedness, compassion and dedication by genuinely helping addicts unlike most M.D.’s.
That being said, I have read several of your articles as I am currently going through suboxone WD’s after 5 years of “maintance,” which I have to say did help me become stable in my life and for better or worse got me to this point. However before I began detoxing, I did taper down to under .5mg and have had a relatively smooth WD the first 3 days, however I am on day 7 and the past 3 days have been hell and I have to return to work tomorrow.
I took 4 grams of kratom days 3 & 4 then jumped to the loperamide days 6 & 7 at 12mg/day. I’m curious, in your opinion, if I continue to take one or both of these to help get through the next week (slowly tapering) would it prolong my WDs? And, which would you recommend taking if only one?
Thank you again for your help and guidance Matt!
And to what James said below about others comments-I couldn’t agree more!
You’re welcome Justin. And thanks for providing the readers with that awesome list of opiate withdrawal remedies you used. I’m sure it will help a lot of people. Take care!
Hello Matt, I am currently in the middle of an oxy binge, what I intended to go for a few days has drug out to a few months, unfortunately. I have some kratom in my possession, but not the red vein that you specified. I am serious about getting m act back together. For now I am working on a taper dose before I discontinue oxy entirely, then I will begin your suggested regimen. My only question is what are some good tips for a proper taper. Let’s say I take 180-210 mg of oxy to satisfy myself, should I then consider 10mg reduction a day?
Also would like to say congratulations for helping so many people. I can tell by the comments your really out to help people. Thank you Matt Finch! You are a good person.
Thanks so much for your kind words. I really appreciate your positive feedback. It means a lot to me.
As for your taper..read Step 2 in this article and that will give you all the info you need to customize your own oxy taper:
How To Wean Off Oxycodone At Home
If you need any further help, I’m here to assist you along your journey. You’re not alone in this, and I hope you’ll update us with your progress! Take care Kano “from the ashes” Burnidad.
Matt, I’m about to go into opiate withdrawal. I’m terrified as I have other autoimmune illnesses and I believe the opiates are making me SICKER. I’m terrified of withdrawal but when I read this about kratom, I about fell over. I know friends who love me and would help me to get this herb. I”m not sure which sites are safe to order from. Can you share that with me or potentially write to me and let me know? I would do anything to get off of this crap. I want my LIFE back! I have been so impressed with your honesty and commitment to help people get off of this stuff and in the healthiest way possible. This could well be the miracle I’ve been waiting for to be released from this. I’m encouraged by the comments too. Another question: How do I find a place close to me that has kratom? I’m book marking your site here so I can come back and create a list. The power is best, yes? Thank you so much! This is the first time I feel I have HOPE for my recovery!
Hi Annie,
Kratom has helped many people as you’ve read, and I would love to assist you in any way I can so that you can treat your withdrawal symptoms quickly and effectively.
You said you’re about to go into opiate withdrawal…does that mean in a few hours or a few days? My favorite company for kratom online is:
KratomUnderground.com
If you have a few days, they can be your best bet. However, if you need it very soon (like today) you might be able to find it locally or within driving distance. For instance, there is an herb shop only a few blocks from my house that has all the kratom you could ever dream of, pretty convenient!
They frequently carry kratom at smoke shops. Simply go into the Google search engine and type in kratom with the city you live in, for instance for me it would be:
“kratom san diego”. I just did this and I got a whole bunch of smoke shops within a few miles to several miles that carry kratom.
If you need any more assistance I’m here to guide you along the way. The principles I teach in the article have helped a ton of people! Take care and good luck!
Matt, thank you. I found a wonderful smoke shop in town, not too far from me with a very knowledgeable staff. I noticed that the kratom names were not on their store list that you mentioned in your post, but were listed such as ‘red vein’ and green indo’. I specifically asked for kratom that is NOT stimulating, but more sedating and pain killing.
I have been on opiates (prescribed) for a long time. I’ve been desperate to get off of them, but have not wanted to do a long taper, as I don’t have the discipline to do so. I have enough left, however to taper with. I wanted to give a try before I threw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. Still skeptical about kratom but am headed over to get an ounce of red bali and see how it works for me. I tend to be very sensitive to anything, and when I tried weed, same thing, it didn’t require much to get effects, but the anxiety I got from it was horrendous and it did nothing for pain. I’m encouraged with all I’m reading. I think 9 -10 grams might be a bit much for me. What would you recommend to folks who are sensitive to any kind of medications or herbs?
I’ll report back and share how it worked for me. I’m happy to share whatever will help others too and I thank you for your offer to assist! It’s just what those of us who want off of these drugs, hope so much for: that someone understands and can lead us out of the hell of opiates. You’re right too, many of us fear withdrawal and for me it was absolutely terrifying and I’ve tried it on multiple occasions without success. I’m hoping this will be what I need to pull through it and be DRUG free! If the kratom works, I will be back at the smoke shop on Monday to purchase more for the remainder of withdrawal. Many thanks again, Matt. You’re a true blessing….
I’m so glad you were able to find a kratom supplier close to your home. As for your question regarding dosing:
Most people who are new to kratom (not opiate users) start with 2-3 grams on an empty stomach to assess tolerance…then they wait 2 hours and if they don’t feel the effect, they add more as necessary until they find their own individual “optimal dosage.”
Again congrats on taking the action steps to get off opiates for good! You are motivated, and now you have kratom in addition to the ability to taper your opiates if you feel so inclined. Take care and I’ll talk to you soon Annie.
Matt,
Thanks for the feedback, I’ve been experimenting with different strains. I finished the red Bali which was great, but I needed something a little more potent for the wd ( I’m going CT and intend to STAY off opiates so I’m quite motivated) so went and got Green veined Indo and Red veined Horn. Tried the green already and it has a really nice MELLOW feeling and pain is gone. I’ve not tried the red vein yet, but I believe this is the best strain for opiate withdrawal. I only needed two half tsp of the green Indo and it worked nicely. I’m a beginner, so I don’t want to throw down too much at once. A lot of this seems to be hit and miss and as each of us has a unique body system, one may work great one someone, while the same might not at all for someone else. Anyway, this is day two for me without opiates. I got up this morning with that usual anxiety and OMG, I have no pills! But that lasted about as long as it took to get to the kitchen and swallow down some of the bali with juice. THe most horrifying taste EVER, but the relief it brings from symptoms has prevented illness and couch lock. Without this, having tried to get off of opiates before, I’d be deathly ill. I have serious issues physically and wanted my withdrawal to be a safe one. This is a GOD send.
Not many drug/alcohol addiction specialists would recommend kratom as relief from opiate withdrawal as the key to freedom from pills, but to me that’s like refusing to give a laboring woman an epidural. WHy have more pain than is necessary? Getting off of opiates is sheer hell. Some in addiction treatment believe that if it’s ‘too easy’ you’ll go back to it. Excuse me, Matt, but I do believe that to be horseshit. This stuff is saving my life and I believe my opiates were making me very ill. I am now two days opiate free, thanks to kratom and I look forward to my new job and my new life, FREE from the shackles this dependence has brought to my life. Thank you for everything….and supporting a humane way to avoid the worse of opiate withdrawal….
Thanks for sharing the update on your journey…and congratulations for staying clean off opiates! I’m not your typical addiction specialist, thus, I tend to go against the grain. I study whatever works, and traditional drug treatment has horrible recovery percentages…it’s time for a paradigm shift. Take care and keep that positive mindset!
Hi Matt,
I apologize for the many posts regarding this herb. I’m a week out now, CT from opiates and have a question. My dosage is about 5-6 grams per dose 4x day. I’ve managed well on this dosage. The question and concern for me comes as I have attempted to taper off the Kratom. I find I’m STILL having withdrawal symptoms, but since I’m a week out, I wonder if this is from the opiates, still, even though they are not in my system anymore, OR if I have simply switched dependence on opiates for kratom? I was on prescribed opiates for MANY years and wonder if perhaps the reason I’m experiencing what feels as opiate withdrawal symptoms is because I was on them for such a long time. I’m not ready to jump from the Kratom just yet, but chose day 10 to begin to titrate slowly from the Kratom.
My question for you is this: while taking kratom for the withdrawal symptoms, how does one discern when the OPIATE withdrawal is over? Your help on this would sure be appreciated. I’m so excited to be OFF opiates and never thought I could do it. I really want to finish this and wonder what to expect regarding the above question, as I do wish to get off of Kratom as soon as possible, but also do not wish to get off of it and still have opiate withdrawal symptoms. Thank you so much.
I have been on 5mg oxycodone for about a year just taking 1and half a day working my way down to one a day start kratom tomorrow are my withdraws going to be minimal since I take such a low dose and how long will the withdraws be
I got some Kratom from a friend. It says White Horn on the lid, but looking at pictures, it doesn’t look like White Horn. From pictures on another site, it looks more like either Green Borneo or Premium Indo. Do you know how either/both of these work. Not a big fan of stimulants. Looking more for something to help me sleep. Thanks for the advice.
Generally the white strains are stimulating, the red strains are sedating, and the green are in-between. All kratoms work well for opiate withdrawal, but some work better than others. I often found that mixing different strains worked well too. Different people prefer different strains depending on their unique biochemistry.
If you want something to help you sleep, the red veins are used for that. They are the most sedating and painkilling of all the kratoms.
I’m on day 1 of taking kratom instead of suboxone. I cut myself way down to about 1/8 mg after being on it for 10 years off and on mixed with relapses using heroin and oxy. It’s been so long since I have gone a day without any kind of opiate in my system that I’m scared half to death. I have to work today but have the next two days off. I’ll keep you updated on how it’s going. So far I feel fine, but my last dose of suboxone was at 4pm yesterday and it’s only 11am now. Was definitely feeling a little antsy in bed early this morning. Took the kratom about an hour ago and feel fine now.
Hi Jess,
I’m glad the kratom helped you to feel fine. There is no need to be scared half to death. Fear is what keeps the opiate addiction going for so long. Fear of withdrawal. Now you have something that will ameliorate those symptoms. Please keep me posted on your progress and I’m here to assist you along the way.
You’re very courageous for getting off opiates after such a long history…I commend you! Take care and I hope to hear from you again.
I survived Monday at work okay. I did have some trouble sleeping last night, but I think I just need to take a higher dose of kratom before bed. The only thing I could find was these little vials of kratom liquid and I wasn’t sure how strong they would be so I didn’t end up buying enough to take a higher dose before bed. I did order some powder off the internet yesterday though, so I’ll be set by tomorrow. As far as withdrawal symptoms go, I’m only experiencing very mild amounts. This kratom is really a wonder herb. I recently moved and decided to only come off the suboxone once I was here so that I wouldn’t be able to go hook up if I didn’t like the withdrawal. I don’t know if I would have been able to do this without the kratom. Thanks so much for providing this information.
Jess thanks so much for the update. Sounds like things are going to be dialed in a little better tomorrow when you get more kratom powder…and like you said; it really is a wonder herb. Your plan of coming off Suboxone after you moved to a new area was absolutely marvelous. Well done!
It’s my pleasure providing this information to you and everyone else. If there is anything else I can do to help, I’ll be here to answer any questions you may have along the way. And I would also love to hear more updates if you feel inclined to share your experience. By for now.
Hi. I started my opioid abuse in or around 2008 and also a killer Xanax addiction at the same time. Unfortunately for me I took the bullet train to HELL. At a blink of an eye I went from a few percs to heroin iv @ 3grams a day. And I am from Philly so the heroin is normally fire. Anyways, I lost my father in 2012 to an overdose of heroin, Xanax, oxy, methadone ETC and I decided to move states because I was doing so much heroin and Coke and Xanax (8mgs or more per day) that it was inevitable that I was going to kick the bucket myself. I have been thru 6 rehabs and coming from a Cali rehab back to Oklahoma where I now live I relapsed in the airport. Long story short…..not only was I on full agonist opiates and benzos and Coke but, I also was heavily addicted to Subutex. Yes…. I got high and had a grand ol’time shooting up bupe. I LOVED it. When I was in the last rehab in Cali the Addiction “specialist” (that term is used loosely) did not taper me off of the subs. Everyone else was off and sick and there I was happy as a clam. Well…if I had my Xanax it would have been perfection. Ok…so…. I was a severe case with zero hope!! I thought about my father…who was labeled the same and about my 3 children and so I came home and sold my beautiful wedding ring just to buy crappy tar heroin. That was the last straw. I went on Methadone. I always said I would never go on methadone. Well….here I am. I’m on 110mgs per day. I’m “clean” and have been for awhile. I have zero cravings. But, I can’t sleep and am lazy. So, I really want to come off. I want to see if I can be clean for once in many years without a maintenance drug. I have many take homes. I completely quit taking benzos and seroquel and Coke. My arms look much better. I can even see my veins plumping back. I’m very proud of what I have been able to do so far. I’ve come a very long way. My question is I have ZERO patience and ZERO ability to see through a good taper. I will probably end up using again. And I will probably end up using ALL of the drugs I was using b4. I do NOT want that. Do you think it might be feasible to cold turkey my methadone with Kratom and the supplement? I know anything is feasible. I guess what I’m trying to get at is feasible for ME? I have bad anxiety for my baseline and I have hepatitis C. I also have lupus. I’m a nurse….go figure….and I realize that you aren’t a physician but, any advice you can give me is welcome. It’s 2016 now. My resolution is **surprise** to try to get as clean as possible without reverting backwards. I’m a big p<$$y when it comes to withdrawals. Like I said I also have zero patience. Have you heard of anyone jumping off 110mgs of methadone with Kratom and supplements? I apologize for this very long book I wrote. I read everyone's stories and all of your comments and I think that like everyone else I may have stumbled upon a solution or at the very least a big help. Thanks~~Erica
The girl I referred to in the article used nothing but kratom for 3 weeks to come off methadone with ease. However, everyone is different, so I have no way of knowing how it will work for each person. But if you read through the comments you’ll find stories of other people that used kratom to come off methadone.
Hi Matt. I came across your website today, about 50 hours after taking my last hydrocodone. I went out and got a package of Bali and Maeng Da and the results have been great. I wish I’d known about it before coming off opiates. I’m over 60 hours in now and the kratom has eliminated all the major withdrawal pains so hopefully another 2-3 days of this and I”ll be through the worst of it and can drop the kratom and be opiate free for the first time in 5 years.
Hi Phil,
So glad to hear you found my website and were able to go get some kratom so quickly. And that is awesome that the kratom eliminated all the major withdrawal symptoms!!! Right on! Congrats for getting off hydrocodone Phil. What you’re doing takes a lot of courage. Take care.
Thanks Matt. If I had seen your site sooner I would have ordered from a link here. Luckily I live in the DFW metro area and could find kratom fairly easily albeit at inflated prices. Expensive is better than nothing though. I’m hoping this will be the first and last time I need kratom but if I should ever fall off the wagon again at least I know there is something to ease me through detox.
…I have no plans to relapse but as an addict I can never say never. Thanks again, man.
Yes, expensive is much better than nothing. I hope this is the last time you ever have to go through this as well. Good luck!
Hello I am just curious if the Kratom will prolong the opiate withdrawal any. I’m on day 5 and only used Kratom for the first time yesterday.
Hey Matt,
Kratom is used not to prolong opiate withdrawal, but to gently step-down from abusing powerful opiates using a weaker natural plant. If you take kratom for too long you can become dependent on it and have withdrawal symptoms, but taken for less than 1-2 weeks, tapering daily it is a great strategy for reducing withdrawal symptoms.
Kratom is not an opiate, though it binds to the same opioid receptors that morphine, heroin, hydrocodone and other opioids bind to. Using the opiate withdrawal supplement I recommend in the article can also really help you in combination with kratom or also on it’s own.
Hi Matt,
I’ve been reading a lot and still scared to death, I’m a disabled Vet and I’ve been on Suboxone for 18 months, starting at 16 mg a day and now on 2mg. The VA does not have suboxone so it’s been coming out of pocket after the 1 year assistance plan and I just can’t afford it, it takes my whole check after rent. Please help me with a plan that I can possibly afford, I refuse to go back to opiates, which the VA has no problem giving. I’m in trouble I’m afraid, I only have 3 8 mg strips left, I dropped to 1 mg today to try and make them last until I can get some help. Thanks
Hi Stephanie,
You are going to get through this. Please read the following article for tapering from 1 mg of Suboxone down:
Suboxone Taper Plan: 4 Pillars Method
Also, the plan that is most affordable is mega-dosing Vitamin C, which only costs around $32. Please refer to the following article for details:
How to Mega-Dose Vitamin C to Stop Opiate Withdrawal
Finally, after you get past the acute withdrawal phase, the following article will help you prevent the post-acute withdrawal symptoms:
How to Stop Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome From Opiates
If you need any more assistance after reading these articles, I’m very happy to help you Stephanie. Hang in there!
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs
Matt
I have commented on your blogs before. I have a question and cannot find an answer. I have been on suboxone for 15 months and having a hard time with the last bit of tapering. I recently experimented with using kratom (along with amino acids, vitamins and withdrawal ease) however, I was unsuccessful due to extreme exhaustion. I decided to continue taper the suboxone.
However, I have also recently been diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I am active in many online groups and talk to many suboxone patients with the same symptoms or diagnosis of underactive thyroid. I recently have found research showing (what I have considered to be true for awhile now) that suboxone can cause this problem. Now I am also finding information that links kratom use to hypothyroidism.
Help! I HAVE to get off this “life sucking” medication! I thought that kratom may be the answer but now I also worry that it will just continue my problem.
Hi Matt,
My boyfriend is on day 7 without using methadone, I can’t believe how well kratom works! My question is, with methadone withdrawals lasting much longer than Sao withdrawals, should the taper off kratom last longer? Thanks again!
The anti- depressant effect of opiates is huge. For treatment resistant versions of depression, some doctors(I bet very few) prescribe buprenorphine. I used them, mildly, for long standing depression….worked like a charm. Getting off, if you suffer from mental illness is rough though. The kratom is mild, but does just enough to ease the nerves and prevent ” bottoming out”. Also, if money permits, buy supplements that help repair mitochondrial dysfunction. Pqq, l carnitine, coq10, and ribose. This can be added to the protocol that this website promotes.
I started taking the stuff weeks before stopping pain meds.
Kurt thanks for providing readers with some really great information. Your comment will help many people I’m sure.
Hi matt,
My question is if I have to take 9 grams of kratom 4 times a day and in this article you said that 8 ounces should be plenty. That would mean that it would only last like 4 days. So should I get more than 8oz? I’ve been on suboxone for the last year and am about to start my detox hopefully in about 3 weeks. I’m waiting to have enough money to by the elimadrol and the kratom. Also if I do have xanxx do I still need to get everything eles in the Thomas method if I’m using the elimadrol? Thank you for all your help.
I took 3 tsp and this is day one. Using Super red vain from that link you sent me. The effects seem a bit bland right now. Trying to kick oxy addiction. I don’t have a scale so just used 3 tsp.
I just took it with water. Basically put in on my tongue and drank a full glass. So you suggest drink a full glass grapefruit after I down it?11:13am last 3 tsp was 9:00am. No yawning effects or chills. Usually without taking oxy in the morning I would be yawning.
Oh YES! Grapefruit juice is the way to go. I felt ripped off when I used kratom with just water. The same 10 gram serving didn’t get me even close to the same buzz. It’s a very powerful potentiator. And that’s great to hear you don’t have yawning or chills. The kratom is filling your opioid receptors and preventing the onset of full-blown withdrawal from oxycodone.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Can you OD from Kratom? Going to the store now to get grapefruit. Part of my body wants the other drug– its like a hungry feeling, but I am full at the same time.
Oh good to hear. Yes, the fresh-squeezed grapefruit juice will rock. For your next dose, mix a cup of the fresh juice with kratom powder. I like how you said part of your body wants oxy, but you feel full at the same time. Sounds like the kratom is working to alleviate withdrawal, just not getting you high.
Same as with opiates, you can OD on kratom…though it takes a lot because it’s so weak. Many people take dosages of an ounce (28 grams) at a time. Just be careful that you don’t get high off it. If you take enough with grapefruit juice, you can get high and start to become addicted to the kratom too.
If you are just using it to manage withdrawals, try to “stay full” and don’t worry about the “hungry feeling”. I’ve got high as hell off kratom and it can be tempting to take more than is needed to curb symptoms. Glad your getting the grapefruit Joshua.
Feel free to keep us posted, and I’m here to assist you along the way.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
its working now. Feel a bit zippy and sluggish. warm skin and no withdrawal effects. Probably going to take 2 more grams at 3:00pm or when I start to feel icky. I feel bored though and less interested with little things.
Yes. The red vein kratoms are extremely sedating and painkilling. They can make you feel sluggish, but really helpful for eliminating the opiate withdrawal anxiety. Some people like to mix red veins with a white vein, because the white vein is very “stimulating”, so you get relief, but also have more energy.
Absolutely wonderful to hear you have no withdrawal symptoms. Also, as for the boredom and sluggish feelings, the amino acids L-tyrosine and DLPA work very well to help you produce mood-stimulating and energy-enhancing positive feel-good chemicals in the brain. They are only around $10. My favorite is DLPA, but sometimes stores don’t have it, and most of the time L-tyrosine is easy to find.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Thanks for all the information. Drinking some coffee and it gave me a buzz lol. Definitely buy that stuff tomorrow. My mind needs it.
You’re very welcome Joshua. I love helping out in any way I can. I’m glad the coffee gave you a buzz haha. Natural stuff is way better than oxys and other pharmaceuticals. Really happy to hear you’re going to buy the amino acid supplement tomorrow. Here’s an article I wrote on DLPA you would really benefit from checking out:
DLPA: A Miracle Supplement For Opiate Addiction Recovery
forgot. When you said OD. From your only view how long should a person wait in between drinks? For me should I just do 9-10 grams x3 even 4 hours for the next 7 days?
If I were you, I would wait until you start to feel the first “signs” of withdrawal coming back. Then you can take anywhere from 3 grams and up to get relief, though higher dosages of 9 grams and up work best for opiate withdrawal. The example you asked about should work good…adjust as needed for your individual needs, but that sounds good. After 3 days it’s best to start tapering off kratom, so reduce your dosage and frequency so coming off kratom is mild.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
So DLPA will help with the brain and Kratom will treat withdrawal. Also getting off ambien after 7 years. My brother told me the best thing for that is CBD oils and 10% THC. Not legal in my state lol. Still looking into CBD oils for sleep.
DLPA with also help with withdrawal a lot. It will restore endorphin and dopamine deficiency that opiate addiction caused or exacerbated. It’s my #1 favorite supplement for opiate recovery. And CBD oil is amazing. It’s really expensive though from what I’ve seen. If you find a good provider please let me know as I will be writing an article on it in the future.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Doctors put me on anti-depressants 2 years ago and I wanted to kill myself after the 3rd week. So I told the doctor about my problems and he said “Here, follow it up with this chemical to bypass your issues”. After that I just said no thanks. DLPA is not like an anti-depressant right? Just worried about taking something that will have the same effect as an anti-depressant. My mother came by and she knows about my ending with oxy, so she gave me a pill full of B vitamins and. You know the worst thing about getting clean? Waking up. Living in ignorance shadowed my loss of life.
DLPA is not an antidepressant. It’s just a combination amino acid supplement that improves mood. I used to take the antidepressant Paxil, and it gave me all sorts of negative side-effects. But I know they also help a lot of people. I do much, much, much better with amino acid therapy.
Thanks. So I found the right dose for mornings. 3 1/2 tsp. Perfect and comes on like an oxy, but at the same time not an oxy. Would say the first 30 minutes I have more energy and then more of a chilled feeling. last dose was 9am and coming onto 1:00PM and still feel okay. Come down doesn’t feel like coffee at all. Just drifts off and leaves you the energy you woke up with. My skin feels warm. Only negative effect is (heavy head) off and on. nothing bad though.
That’s so great to hear Joshua. So 3.5 tsp with grapefruit juice is your magic dose. I have the same experience as you…comes on like an oxy or hydrocodone, but it’s still a bit different. Pretty cool right? Thank God for opiate withdrawal remedies like kratom, mega-dosing with loperamide HCL (Imodium AD), mega-dosing with Vitamin C, and of course Ibogaine treatment. Natural remedies are awesome, as are medications. There are so many things that work well, hopefully more and more people will learn about this methods instead of getting on Suboxone and Methadone long-term.
Sorry one more question. Can I take kratom in pill form then wash it back with grapefruit? or for best results mix it in with grapefruit?
You can totally take kratom pill with grapefruit juice together. It is the exact effect. Not the best taste right? Yuck.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Yeah not a fan of the taste. Placed a tsp on my tongue, and washed it back with a full glass of grapefruit.Effects are much better. Not a doctor or know much about the human body, but I can feel the results. Thanks.
Glad it worked for you! Enjoy.
So glad I came across this site. I want to get off oxynorm and oxycontin. I sat in a chair for 2 years suffering terribly from benzoate withdraws. In agony with arthritis, bulging discs, trigeminal neuralgia and am on the opiods for one year. They had to put me back on valium.,my doctor smiled one day at me and asked me did zi get a nice buzz from the opiods, I never did once but they dull the anxiety as well as manage the pain. Due for two operations. I’m terrified of stopping the opiods because, yes, I am addicted to them. First time I said it. I have been in bed for about six months, gave up driving, have a home help becsuse I can’t do housework or even wash my hair with arthritis in elbows. I want to stop to opiods because I want higher doses. Am on 5mg oxynorm 3 times daily and Oz Contin 10mg twice daily. I was on verge of a breakdown when my valium was stopped 4 years ago and don’t want that with the opiods. I intend using kratom. Due to my high anxiety levels which type do I need. I’m also on 150 mg of Effexor, an antidepressant. Most important point, I cannot take grapefruit becsuse it interacts with one of my normal medications. Medically I am unwell, waiting to get 10 teeth out, pain in them is awful as well as nerve pain in face. Cannot eat solids, deficient in vitamin D and folic acid but tummy won’t tolerate much. Even have to take paracetamol rectally, no anti inflammatories so end up every 2 months with my stomach killing me. Had tests done in Dublin, zi eland last week and depending on them will have an operation. I’m off drink for 22 years, I think in later life the punishment your body and mind goes through comes back to haunt you. I hope I can get kratom in Ireland. Sorry for long post.
Thank you so much for getting the word out. Kratom is no joke. I started using opiates at the age of 22 and it had me so wrapped that I was taking 300 mg of oxy a day. up untill the point I robbed a pharmacy and got put in prison for 4 years. Talk about withdrawl symptoms I remember just begging the corrections officers to just kill me as I sat in the observation cell puking and shitting my brains out for 5 days. Fast forward to now I am 30 years old and when I went to prison I figured 4 years was long enough to never want another pill… I was wrong. I didn’t try to get any help and before I knew it I was up to 100 mg of hydrocodone a day again. After 6 months of battling being high and trying to battle withdrawls. I finally searched and found kratom Along with thing I could take to naturally fix my brain. That along with some counseling and here I am feeling like a kid again at 30. Please shoot me an email when you have some time. I would love to help others like me out but I’m not sure how to go about doing it. Thanks again. Your the boss!
Rick how’s it going? Your story really inspired me. To go from 300 mg of oxy per day, robbing a pharmacy, 4 years in prison, then 100 mg of hydrocodone per day once you got out…to getting off with kratom, natural supplements to fix your brain, and counseling?!
Epic journey bro. Kratom without a doubt is the bomb for opiate withdrawal. Thanks so much for leaving a comment Rick. And as for wanting to help others like you…
I’ve been wanting to add a new category to my website called “Success Stories” or something along those lines. Your story is incredible, so if you would like to submit an article on how you got clean, I would be happy to post it on this website, and I’m sure it will help others. You can email me from the link below:
Contact Me
Thanks so much, and hopefully I will talk to you soon.
Thanks for the info! Maybe i will bypass the kratom route since it is addictive as well but if i do decide to get some is there any other juice it can be mixed with as i cant stand grapefruit juice? Also in your opinion what method/methods do you think i would benefit most from? I will have to continue to work (of course may be able to call off for 1-3 days), be a mom and wife which is horrible to admit that my husband knows nothing about my addiction:( thanks for your help, its nice to know i have someone on my side!
I was wondering if I can use opiate freedom center products with kratom? That’s where I read about kratom and already purchased their product.
Hi Johna. Congratulations for purchasing some natural supplements to help you get clean. That takes courage and I honor you for that! Yes you can use that product with kratom. However, in my opinion that “at-home recovery system” formula is missing some pretty important key ingredients. For instance, there is no valerian root or passion flower in it. These are herbs that all of the top 4 opiate withdrawal formulas on the market contain in abundant amounts. They work on the GABA receptors in the brain in the same way that Xanax, Valium and other benzodiazeenes do. Studies have shown Valerian to be just as effective as benzos for insomnia, only with less side-effects.
Furthermore, the product you speak of doesn’t contain DL-phenylalanine (DLPA). One of the main reasons you feel so bad during opiate withdrawal is because opiates mimic the neurotransmitters called “endorphins”, which are your natural pain-killers that are released during exercise.
After you’ve become physiologically dependent on opiates then stop, your brain becomes severely endorphin-deficient. The DLPA amino acid supplement boosts endorphins, dopamine and norepinephrine. In one study, a single dose of DLPA increased a man’s endorphins by over 300%, and it lasted for nearly 6 days.
Also, the product you purchased doesn’t contain ginger or any other ingredient for stomach issues during opiate withdrawal. The top 4 formulas on the market all contain ginger at minimum, with most containing even more ingredients for stomach discomfort.
There are some useful ingredients in your product for sure, so taking it with kratom will totally help you out. You could easily just buy some valerian, passion flower, DLPA and ginger and take those with it. You could get all 4 of these for about $20 to $45 depending on where you purchase them and what brand you get. If you can only afford a couple of them I would choose the passion flower and valerian.
So, in conclusion, yes…..the product you purchased can be taken with kratom to ease opiate withdrawal symptoms. Is it my favorite product? No where close to it….but it should help you a lot.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Matt and Mary,
Just a cautionary note for those that have hypertension (high blood pressure)…DLPA is known to increase blood pressure, sometimes dramatically. It seems to be the ‘L’ form that is the biggest culprit. Therefore, some may want to use just the D-Phenylalanine form instead. I can’t find consistent data on L-Tyrsoine and Muccana Pruriens but there are studies indicating they too can raise blood pressure. I can attest personally to how much these amino acids helped restore my dopamine levels from a hideously low level exemplified by brain fog, anhedonia, anxiety, depression and tremor, to a more functional level today. So one will have to weigh the risks/benefits. If you are in good overall health, I don’t see any issue with them. So, there is that, and of course the whole question of how supplements and herbals interact with prescription medication.
Also, I have suffered my whole life with hypertension and since transitioning to Kratom 6 months ago I have recently seen an unexpected, slowly developing, yet dramatic increase in my blood pressure and protein in urine (renal function issues). I have eliminated all my low dose ongoing supplementation for brain chemistry balance ( amino acids) and any other suspect I can think of, yet my hypertension/renal issues persist. I am now focusing on the Kratom as the culprit. I only use slow strains (Reds), yet I have been unable to lower my dose due to persistent pain as well as receptor issues that have never seemed to heal now 3 years out from my cessation of opioids. My guess is it’s the Kratom causing these anomalies and I will have to switch back over to opiates in the interest of my overall health. While I did have a period of 5 months free from all substances in the interim, I was functioning at a very low level and my pain returned in droves. I am really saddened by this turn of events but it appears that continuing to take Kratom will either lead to a stroke or renal failure. I have simply eliminated all other possible causes and I do take a moderate dose of Kratom daily. I have been unable to wean off. I can tolerate, to some extent, physical pain in a wean, but not the ‘brain pain’ (the receptor issues). I really don’t want my legacy to be the one person that truly died because of Kratom and give the DEA the ammunition they need in the fight to ban this herbal that truly has a place for many in opiate cessation. Unfortunately, my collateral health conditions, I believe, just make Kratom a poor choice for me especially in the long term. I dread a return to Suboxone or worse, Methadone but I don’t really see any other path at this point. I welcome any thoughts or suggestions regarding this matter as I am really disheartened by this turn of events.
Hi Fred,
I’ve known people that experience hypertension from the DLPA form, and I tell them the DPA form which only has D-Phenylalanine can be ordered online, though I’ve yet to see it at health or vitamin stores. I’ve only had two clients have this reaction and from my guess it happens to a small percentage of people. Luckily the DPA is available, and I’ve heard good feedback, even though when I tried it I felt literally nothing (but everyone is different). L-Tyrosine and mucuna can have this effect too, especially if you take them with caffeine.
I’m type o blood, and people with type o blood typically have their dopamine turn to noradrenaline (stress chemical) faster and more often than people with other blood types. Fascinating science behind it all. Exercise and eating right help to keep the dopamine from turning into noradrenaline so much and so fast.
Thank you for your research and care here. I understand the dynamics of everyone’s experience will be unique to their physical, mental make up, as well as the specific details that led up their circumstances…I am 50…20 years ago chronic back pain prescribed OxyContin…became addicted, cold turkey stopped followed by nearly 3 weeks of acute withdrawal….sought NA and professional support… Remained drug free until back injury, surgery, agonizing recovery requiring a month of heavy prescribed narcotics… Terrified of both relapse and withdrawal repeat my new Dr. Announced miracle new option for chronic pain and freedom from relapse and withdrawal… Suboxen… Thought my prayers were answered and for past 9 years had remained on daily 8 mg… 14 days ago, after tapering down over a couple weeks, I took my last 4 miligrams…
days 1 – 7 completely bearable vs past and what I anticipated…woke up day 8 and thought I must have caught a flu bug…however, it was growing in symptoms (classic withdrawal and EXACTLY THE SAME AS 20 yrs earlier. This past week has been a full blown return to the exact nightmare I thought I had thoughtfully taken great care to avoid…
That’s the history and I am here stuck in the middle of this huge shit storm! I WILL NOT return to suboxen and I know every addict in the world professes their commitment to remain clean but in my case I know It’s not an option….
Sorry if I have provided too much data just to ask the following question / fear…. I learned of Kratom yesterday and frankly did little research… I picked up a package of 1 gram of botanical extract which contained 3 capsules (assuming 33% of a gram each) praying this might provide me some relief from these acute symptoms without simply extending this hell further into the future). I took one 3 hours ago and did feel about a 50% -60% improvement.
Based on your information, HAVE I SIMPLY JUST TRADED A MOMENTARY DIP IN SYMPTONS for an increase in time before they start to diminish?
PLEASE ADVICE! I appreciate the relief more than you can imagine, but I don’t want ANYTHING. More than a break getting through this!
You will be back to day 1 once you stop Kratom
Thanks for you comment Rob. Although kratom is not an opiate, it does mimic the effects of opiates (agonist), and fills the same opioid receptors. However, tapering kratom for a week, while starting to use a powerful opiate withdrawal formula, is going to be MUCH LESS of a shock to your body than coming off opiates cold-turkey. This is a more gentle step-down approach. As a matter of fact, I’ve had patients of mine use kratom for a few weeks to come off high dosages of Methadone with absolute ease, and the day they came off kratom it was NOTHING like day 1.
In detox facilities doctors often use a short-term buprenorphine protocol for a few days as a more gentle step-down than coming off opiates cold-turkey. Kratom is a natural alternative that I’ve seen work for a ton of people. If you use high dosages daily for too long, then when you come off kratom it will be day 1 of kratom withdrawal. However, the plan I’ve outlined is very effective at relieving the most intense opiate withdrawal symptoms. Of course there will still be some symptoms, but this plan is much better than coming off cold-turkey.
I also recommend people to taper their opiates if they can. Tapering slowly and then using one of my plans to come off opiates is always the best way to go. However, I know many people either can’t afford to taper or don’t have the discipline, so in those cases there has to be a plan for cold-turkey withdrawal. I have developed many “How-To” articles on this site for people to pick one that works best for there unique situation.
Thanks so much for the comment and I welcome anyone else to express any questions and/or concerns. I’m quite knowledgeable in the area of opiate recovery, and I’m eager to help in any way I can.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Hey Matt my name is Matt as well and I’m currently taking 8mg buprenorphine and want to get off and bought red vein Thai kratom do I use that as you described above? For days 1-7? I’m trying to get some calm support. I have taking opiates for years since 18 where I suffered a skull fracture and got prescribed 5mg oxys and slowly moved up from there to 100 mg morphine and I continued to take opiates only for withdrawal pain. But there was a time where I did like to get High off opiates. But there’s been a few times I felt the urge to get high over the course of 5 years of being on subs. Just a handful of times. I got a sub Doctor and been on subs for 5-6 years and want to get off completely what do you recommend on how I start out? My wife has been with me this whole time too and she’s been as well addicted but she takes a much lower dose of sub. Please help!!! Thank you. We want to be free and no longer want to be victims of opiate withdrawal. I feel dea is so wrong by making kratom a class 1 or even putting it on a list when alcohol and Tabacco , Tylenol and even cell phones kill more people every year than kratom will ever kill. Thanks for your time.
Matt,
8mg of buprenorphine (suboxone) may be too high of a dose to stop at, even switching to kratom: for me it was. Actually I tried to jump off of suboxone at 4mg using kratom and it was still too high for me. At 4mg, it took about 5 days before I could tell that kratom was working (not a “feeling” just relief). I will say that during those 5 days my withdrawal from suboxone wasn’t bad; mostly anxiety related and insomnia. I’m not sure how much of that was because It takes time for suboxone to leave your system due to its half-life, and how much was due to the fact that I was using kratom 3x a day. However, after using kratom before bed on the 4th night, I woke up on the 5th day in full-blown withdrawal. After dosing with kratom, I was OK for about 4 hours so I dosed kratom again. This began the need to dose every 4 hours. This was fine but the problem was that this went on day after day and as I would stretch out the hours, I was still fighting withdrawal at day 17. I had a large amount of kratom on hand (kilo)and it was taking a huge dose to combat withdrawal. I do know that we are all different tho, so my experience may be different than yours.
If you proceed, you may need quite a bit of kratom on hand because it seems (from my experience and the experience of many others) that the higher the dose of bupe, the more kratom it takes and for a longer time. I think the best thing to do it to taper the suboxone first, getting yourself down as low as possible (2mg or lower).
I don’t mean to deter you, I just want you prepared with plenty of kratom on hand since at the end of the month kratom is banned in the US, and it will be declared a Schedule 1 drug (imo, ignorance on behalf of the government!). It seems the government wants every addict on suboxone or methadone and don’t understand that these ways do not work for everyone. If the ban wasn’t happening, then in my opinion switching (even at 8mg) would be a better option if you feel that you are having problems on suboxone, but having enough kratom to succeed may now be a problem (you could always stock up NOW). Since everyone IS different, your dose may be more or less kratom in order to combat withdrawal.
Using kratom (different strains mainly red vein for acute withdrawal and white/green vein after the first week or so for energy/calmness))in combination with other things like clonidine, dlpa, gabapentin or lyrica, phenibut (very cautiously) has been successful for many others.
As always I want to point out that since lack of dopamine affects most addicts, especially during withdrawal, there are things that you can do to prepare your bodily heath and brain chemistry to fight withdrawal. Staying away from sugar and caffeine is a start. Taking supplements that help produce dopamine as well as eating a healthy diet with plenty of protein, magnesium, zinc, b vitamins is a good way to fight symptoms that come from lack of dopamine. I believe that the lack of dopamine, serotonin and natural endorphins causes most of the symptoms of opiate withdrawal like rls, insomnia, depression, lack of motivation, lack of energy, stomach issues, and so much more! Supplements (amino acids, viamins, minerals) are a good way to increase dopamine and serotonin. In order for your body to produce it’s own endorphins (without opiates replacing them) exercising and involving yourself in activities that you enjoy can do this.
I wish you and your wife the best of luck! I was a suboxone patient for a long time too but I had issues on suboxone causing my moods and emotions to be flat, or really non existent. I had no energy at all on it. I hated the way I felt, yet was “stuck”, unmotivated to taper it. This is when I discovered the relationship between opiate addiction and brain chemistry. Becoming proactive in adjusting my own chemical imbalances was my saving grace. I not only felt better, I became motivated to taper and was able to fight the withdrawal that came with it. It can be done!
~Mary
OAS RECOVERY SPECIALIST
*DISCLAIMER- the suggestions above are not considered to be medical advice as I am not part of the medical field. Please speak with your Dr before starting any supplements, medications or natural herbs, changing your diet or beginning an exercise regime. Some medications interact with each other and with supplements.
I was on 140 mg of methadone a day for 15 years I came off of it slowly and when I got down to 20 mg I got on Suboxone I was on 16 mg went to 8 mg once a day then 4 mg once a day for 2 weeks then I got down to 2 mg a day once a day for 2 weeks and now I am on 1 mg a day.
I’m a waitress and I can’t afford to be sick. I’m gonna cut down to a half and than every other day. I work 5 day i can’t afford to be sick.I’m gonna cut down to a half and in every other day I work 5 days a week and a waitress and I can’t afford to be sick this had work very well for me cuz believe me I have cold turkey in the pass about die.
Beverly, sounds like your doing great. I’ve been on 100 mg methadone for 18 years and I can’t seem to get down 10mg. I think you will find Kratom will help you a lot. For me, well I’ve had hep-c for 35 years w/ stage 4 cirrhosis & fibrosis. They are waiting for new meds to try on hep-c as the others failed. My point is when I use Kratom my liver can’t handle it and I get very ill. My wife tho, well she came off 75mg m’done using Kratom and it worked.
Best of luck too you.
Hi Beverly,
I totally hear you. I was a cook at a fast-paced restaurant in New York and getting sick was not an option! I’m going to post a link to an article that I believe will be of tremendous value to you. Take care and I really wish you all the best on tackling this opioid dependence.
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion>>
Hi I was reading your research on using kratom and elimiron for opiate withdraw. I’m currently taking suboxone and despite the fact that I had taken it before for six years and withdrew from it terribly, I went back on it because of such severe withdrawal symptoms. I am super motivated to get off of this medication and wondering what you thought was the absolute best way to get off of it totally. Also will Calm Support and Kratom work as well as Elimitron and Kratom? Your page has truly helped and I’m definitely going to try one of your methods! Thank you so much for putting all this information for those trying to be free of opiates!
Hello!
I just had to comment, because the word “Amazed” doesn’t come close to how I feel. I wanted to post this as if it can help one person I’m happy.
Briefly: I have Psoriatic Arthritis, basically my Immune System attacks my body parts, so I can wake up with an extremely painful leg, arm, name it. The pain would be so severe that I would have to go to the ER, where they’d give me perhaps 15 5MG Hydrocodone. After awhile of ER visits I felt paranoid, for sometimes the pain didn’t show (Swelling). My personal Doctor would help, God bless her, but with so many restrictions put between a doctor and a patient, she could only do so much. I never, in all of my life use drugs of any kind, I don’t even drink, ever.
I eventually went to a pain clinic, $400.00 for intake, $150.00 for Pscy Exam, then $150.00 for the visit. They gave me 60mg Oxy daily. Typically I research medicines well, and I should have, because even though I was taking as prescribed, sometimes if there was a day off between appointments, I would be out, it was HORRIFYING. I couldn’t believe how hideous withdraw is. So I tried a few times, unsuccessfully to taper, it’s just SO HARD, but I was sick of being married to a prescription. I tried everything, the “Thomas Method”, simply couldn’t do it.
A situation came up that required me to leave the state for two weeks, this put me in a horrible situation, I literally had to drive 22 hours back, make an appointment, and go to two pharmacy’s to get my medicine, feeling like a bad person.
I had it, I was going to go Cold Turkey, and not do it no matter what. I dropped first day to 30mg and it was hideous, my body HAD TO HAVE IT AND I HATED IT. On that same day, laying in bed I read about Kratom, my first thoughts were “Right, sure, come one this is going to be like all of the other ‘natural’ things that’s going to help me”, but after more research it looked legit, even though I couldn’t believe our overseers haven’t made it illegal yet. So I took more Oxy, found a local store and bought two kinds, my DREAM, I thought I was fooling myself was to go Cold Turkey, and see if Kratom could hold off any withdrawals symptoms.
I bought Maeng Da and Bali. So thinking “More is better” I woke up, no medicine, I took a huge tablespoon. I immediately got groggy, to I took Bali, then fell asleep. But when I woke up I noticed something, I had ZERO withdrawals, NOTHING. Upon finding that it’s dose dependent, next morning I took one teaspoon Maeng Da, I don’t know how to express it, I was alert, not euphoric but relaxed, no pain, zero withdrawals, I just couldn’t believe it. Next day I adjusted my dose to three times one teaspoon and I’m ALIVE, 5 days no Oxy, my bottle is just sitting there full, I neither want it nor crave it. I told my friend who takes Oxy for back pain, and he was like me “You MUST be taking some Oxy”, “Nope”, and my mind, that’s another thing, I can talk so clear and fast I just can’t believe it, I have to slow it down. I plan on waiting a couple of more days and slowly lowering the Kratom, then get off of it.
So if you doubt my post, about 2 years 60mg Oxy, to Cold Turkey with ZERO WITHDRAWEL, I would encourage you to do some research, this is not your average “herbal medicine” that does nothing, it’s outlawed in some countries, there is REAL SCIENCE behind it. So if you need to drop Oxy, I’d suggest do it now before our protectors outlaw it, it’s too wonderful, just like how Thailand outlawed it, burned down entire forests as it cut into their Opium trade, so our government will soon figure out that they are losing money through taxes on rehab, permit fees, billions of dollars they’ll lose once they find out that people can safely detox AND feel good doing it!
Thanks and God Bless.
Hi Mark,
I sincerely appreciate you taking so the time to write such a detailed and helpful comment for other readers to learn about your incredible experience with kratom. Thank you! Your story is fascinating, and since many people read this article everyday, your comment is sure to help many people.
Take care and again, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to help spread the message.
I have been battling my addiction for over 10 years now, like many of you, it started out due to a sports related issue i had with Tennis Elbow, then it got out of hand, I was hooked on Ultram, popping over 20 50mg per daily, I have always had a high tolerance to pain meds, I experience more than three seizures and didn’t stop, it is truly amazing how much as people we prioritizes the high over common sense and our responsibilities and family. I have done cold turkey over 5 times, the last one I thought I was gonna to lose it or die, the pain, RLS, depression was unreal. I was able to get on Sobox, it’s been 2 years now and I want off this, I plan on doing the tampering asap – I have reduced my intake to 1 2mb strip per day and plan on taking your approach, I two have tried the Thomas Method and various nature Anti-Withdrawal ease crap to no avail, I am hoping this time I can do it, my biggest concern is I cannot be Out of work more than a week, I am a consultant and don’t get paid if I am not at the clients location, therefore my question is this, Will I be able to function while on Kratom? mind you I will be starting the Kratom approach next week as I continue to tapper off Sobox. Thank you so much for what you are doing, in my eyes you are truly a great person
Rick I think you’ll find that kratom can most assuredly allow you to function, and function well, while you’re at work. The key is to find the perfect dose for you, and that may take a day worth of experimenting, but well worth it. I hope you’ll update us with your progress as you try it out. And I appreciate your kind words. Thanks for taking the time to share a bit of your story Rick, and I wish you the best of luck. Take care.
Matt, I’ve been addicted for 45 years. I’ve been on 100mg Methadone for about 15 years. I had to move 225 miles from my program with the closest one now being 80 miles. 450 mi once a month R/T or 160 mi daily for 30 days till they trust me for take homes. I’m terrified and I take Kratom 2 tablespoons, start feeling sick and take Methadone. I’m at wits end!! I guess next is to take 4 tablespoons 4X a day. This elimidrol? I suppose I better spend the money and check it out.
Hi Irv,
I responded to your comment before and want you to know I understand how difficult it is to wean off the long half-life opioids. As a fellow senior, I have a lot of empathy for you and understand your frustration with our health care system and how judgmental they can be.
I was able to come off Suboxone, but when I got down to 2 mg, then 1 mg..it got really tough. When you are able to get to those critical low doses, you will find that skipping a day is really important to making the final break. Its because of the really long half lives of these damn drugs! Any change in dose you make today, you often won’t feel for days..thus the skipping of days strategy. I tried everything…but in the end…thats what worked! Use the Kratom (Red strain only..preferably ‘Bali’) as necessary in between to help and I’m confident you can make the break. Keep us posted on your progress, as all of us who have been through this, and still suffer, have great compassion for your struggle.
Wishing you all the best and success,
Fred
Fred,
Thank you!
I am at same level now, at 1 mg for the last 2 months now, down from 16 mg of Subs for 7 years. I want OFF, though, but found our same as you. This is BY FAR the most difficult part of the journey, from 1 mg!! Even to go to .5 mg, the withdrawals are horrible for me. Everyone is different, granted, but there is no way I can skip a day as proposed by some. The effects are horrible by 24 hours without my 1 measly mg. !
SO, is Kratom my best bet here to get through this?? I have Gabapentin, Clonadine, others but to no avail…
Where to buy Kratom in Virginia and what strains, Red Bali, I see mention of ??
Helpful advice please!
And PS, the back pain is worst symptom for me. Common for others?
Richard: I have horrendous back pain from lumbar stenosis. I had to go back onto opiates because Kratom couldn’t manage it but now I’m beginning to think dependence is making it worse seeing as the opiates only help a little and don’t last very long at all. Nothing like they suggest ( 4- 6 hours)…more like 1-2 hours. Your comment made me think a lot of my pain may be dependence and interdose withdrawal…but my ‘head-in-a-vice’ pain when the opiates wear- off scares the hell out of me. Do you have that? Does anyone have that? Its very severe.
Last year April is when I stopped suboxone and I successfully used kratom to do it. I used heroin for almost 10 yrs and then suboxone for about 4 so I understand how bad you can feel. I highly suggest buying a Red Bali kratom and using that to detox. It’s not perfect, nothing is, but my God did it help! The only bad thing about kratom is how terrible it tastes and that it only lasts a few hours till you have to dose again. It tastes so bad that I bought some gelatin capsules and filled them with kratom so I could stomach it. Unfortunately, kratom has come under fire recently so I would check if it is still legal in your state, I’m in NY and it still is, and then just order some off the net cause its much cheaper than an herb shop. I like topextracts.com and authentickratom.com and have used both companies several times with no complaints. Also, my worse symptom was always a tie between lack of temperature control and the excessive sweating.
I wish you all the best in your journey and always remember that you are stronger than your addiction and worth more than that in life.
Hi Rick! I am very interested to see how your journey with Kratom went after stopping suboxone? I am 14 days in, from stopping suboxone cold turkey. I went from 24mgs (3 sub strips) a day, down to 2mgs (a quarter piece of a strip) a day, in about a month and halfs time! It was an extremely fast taper, I know! If I had any other choice in the matter (family wise and financially) I woulda done a slower, more regulated taper; but that’s how my cards were dealt to me. Believe it or not, I did VERY WELL with the taper, and experienced very little withdrawal symptoms during the process. I would’ve liked to have come down even lower than 2mgs, but for various reasons (that would this post reply extremely long) I couldnt. So, I had to jump off at 2mgs. Days 3-5 were absolutely miserable! At the end of day 5, I forced myself to get up and take a shower, and I actually came outta that shower feeling half way human! The next day I was feeling much better (day 6.) My husband, my son, and I actually went to my 9 year old nephews birthday party, that night and I felt pretty normal! We had a great time, and I thought for sure I was through the worse! My husband and I actually came home that night and had a few drinks and a beautiful night together 😉 Well, the next morning (day 7) I woke up feeling hungover, but it was more than just hungover…I had ZERO energy! My legs felt like boulders and I had that awful burning sensation back in my shoulders, arms, back, and legs…it is now day 14 of no subs and other than fleeting moments of feeling semi-normal, and like the withdrawal symptoms are finally going to subside, I cannot shake this feeling. 14 days may not seem like a long time to some, but I know that I should be through the worse by now, and I am not. Although, these symptoms are nothing like what I experienced in days 3-5, they are still extremely debilitating. I am very interested in trying Kratom for a short time, to try to combat these withdrawal symptoms. I would love to hear your experience with it!
Matt, I notice the article you wrote Kratom was for ones who gets off of opiates cold turkey……….I’m currently taking about 40 mg per day of RX Hydrocodone for my back pain. Do you have a daily plan for those trying to taper off the pain meds? I’m thinking of maybe a 3 or 4 week plan supplementing it with Kratom. Thank you!
Larry
Larry,
My plan for tapering opiates of any kind is to start by stretching the time between doses. For instance, if you usually take pain med every 6 hours, start by stretching it to 7 or 8. This alone will cut out one dose.
If you’re one who reaches for it first thing in the morning, you’ll need to force yourself to get up and be active first before taking that morning dose. The reason why is that you need to retrain the reward center of the brain by not providing this “reward” each morning. (This seems to always be the hardest to stop doing)
As with any taper plan, it’s a time to be preparing your brain chemistry and your bodily health by choosing the supplements, eating healthier and begin exercising. Exercising will help your body, of course, but it is even more pertinent to the brain because it will produce endorphins naturally. Endorphin production is lacking since it is replaced by the opiates.
Supplements and nutrition to improve dopamine production is also important. Lack of dopamine causes many of the physical withdrawal symptoms that are felt during opiate withdrawal including rls, body pain,& stomach issues & lack of energy. The supplements that will build dopamine are dlpa, l-tyrosine, l-dopamine & mucuna pruriens. *also take a good multi-vitamin because it contain the necessary co-factors needed to allow these amino acids to work, ie: magnesium, zinc,
b vitamins.
Eat a diet full of protein (precursor to dopamine) and full of fruits and vegetables, especially dark leafy greens. Give up any processed meats and excess sugar. Sugar can keep the aminos from working properly. Caffeine from sodas or energy drinks can make withdrawal symptoms worse. However, even though there is natural caffeine in green tea & dark chocolate, these two are great to add to your diet for the benefits they provide.
Continue your taper until you are dosing your med only 2x a day, every 12 hours. At this point you can start reducing the amount of mgs you take. For instance, if you’re taking 10 mgs, begin taking 1/4 away which means you’ll be left with 7.5mgs. Then next go to 5mgs and so on. Writing out a taper plan will help you manage the taper according to the amount of medicine you have left. Give yourself a few days between each drop to allow your body to get used to the reduction.
Be cautious with the kratom. Tolerance with it can develop quickly. Begin using it only to help withdrawal symptoms. Red vein kratom is great for opiate withdrawal. Green vein can help with anxiety. White usually helps with energy but I found that it also caused an increase in anxiety for myself.
Let me finish by saying that 40mgs/ a day is a relatively small dose. So you may be able to shorten your taper or even just try quitting and using kratom just to get through the acute stage of withdrawal, which can last up to 10 day with oxycodone. Once you’ve got through withdrawal, taper the kratom so you don’t develop a dependence on it.
~Mary
OAS RECOVERY SPECIALIST
*DISCLAIMER- The recommendations above should not be considered medical advice. Please speak with your Dr before starting any new supplements, changing diet or beginning an exercise regime.
Can you take Kratom while reducing the hydrocodone or it unsafe to take both at the same time?
Mary & or Matt, I’ve been addicted for 45 years. I’ve been on 100mg Methadone for about 15 years. I had to move 225 miles from my program with the closest one now being 80 miles. 450 mi once a month R/T or 160 mi daily for 30 days till they trust me for take homes. I’m terrified and I take Kratom 2 tablespoons, start feeling sick and take Methadone. I’m at wits end!! I guess next is to take 4 tablespoons 4X a day. This elimidrol? I suppose I better spend the money and check it out. Any other advice for a long term high dose Methadone addiction? 100 mg a day for a good 15 years “this time” I’ve kicked it 3 times but was much younger. Now I fear a stroke or heart attack as I’m pushing 64 years old.
Irv,
100mg is a pretty high dose to try switching to kratom. Have you checked with your local methadone clinic to see if there is a chance that a “distance exception” can be given? Maybe if your old clinic will work with you and if youve been compliant, they could try contacting the new clinic and show proof that you are a patient with a good track record and worth the chance. Some clinics near more rural areas do have some sort of distance exception.
As you prepare to taper the methadone, you should put focus on preparing your body and brain, getting them physically prepared to fight withdrawal. Eating healthy now is hugely important. Get plenty of protein, dark leafy greens, nuts, seeds, bananas, avacados, cottage cheese, yogurt, and other healthy foods that promote brain health. Cut back or give up things like sodas, other sugars and caffeineted drinks. Green tea is a better replacement as it provides l-theanine. Dark chocolate also provides a quick relief for that sweet tooth plus it will provide great benefits. Take a good multivitamin that contains magnesium, b vitamins, zinc, iodine, selenium. It’s even a good idea to have your blood tested to find any nutrients that your body is lacking.
Starting dlpa (dl-phenylalanine)or another amino acid to promote dopamine production (l-dopa, l-tyrosine, mucuna pruriens) is the best thing toward fighting withdrawal. Opiate withdrawal symptoms are mostly caused by a deficiency of dopamine and endorphins. Adding a supplement called NAC ( n-acetylcystein) helps distribute the dopamine where it is supposed to go.
Natural endorphins have long been replaced by the external opioids you’ve been taking, so focusing on things that will build natural endorphins is also a must. Vigorous exercise, and even doing things you find enjoyment in can produce natural endorphins.
There are prescription medications that can help you fight withdrawal whether you continue tapering or if you are trying to stop. There are many that can help each symptom. I will give you examples:
1. Clonidine- this BP medication has certain properties that help fight withdrawal.
2. Gabapentin or Pregabalin (neuron tin or lyrica)- these are often prescribed for neuropathic pain and can fight many of the withdrawal symptoms
3. Requip or Mirapex- these are medications usually prescribed for Parkinson disease but they work well for many to fight restless legs syndrome
4. Sleeping aid
5. Anti-anxiety med
6. Lomotil- this prescription diarrhea medicine contains an opioid, however it works differently in the body than opioid that provide euphoria. It not only fights diarrhea, but can fight many symptoms because the body has many opioid receptors throughout the body. Filling these opioid receptors will control many symptoms too. ** Loperamide (generic immodium) is also another opioid much like lomotil. Many have found that mega dosing with loperamide is extremely helpful.
*some of these medications also come with a risk of dependency, so you have to be watchful.
The blog is full of information on how to use many of these things to fight opiate withdrawal.
~Mary
OAS RECOVERY SPECIALIST
*Disclaimer- please speak with your Dr before starting any new medications or supplements, and follow their advice on how to take them. Also discuss with your Dr any change in diet and exercise regime.
Mary,
Thank you for your input. My fears
Are obviously warranted. My program gives me 28 days at a time. I am having a hard time tapering I guess because I wasted my lifetime with this garbage. At any rate I’ll do what I can and thanks again.
I didn’t really want to say anything, but I just have to. Coming from a 35yr junkie, heroin, methadone, suboxone, revolving door. I’ve kicked every imaginable way, including ibogaine. Not to mention Narcaning myself. Mary, you have given a list of every trick I know, loperimide, gabbapentin ect. You and Matt have given some of the best advice. I’m taking Kratom, that a friend told me about, and am having very good results, with feelings of not needing to take it anymore. I read some articles that people were saying basically, you’re just using drugs to get off drugs. It’s like having the flu. They obviously don’t have a clue.
Cold Turkey? Been there, done that many many times. They can go f……….
i don’t
Hi Irv,
Your comment hit home as you are an older gentleman, as am I, with a long history of opiate use. Since the mid-80s I was prescribed Darvon as part of a refractory depression program including Prozac and Vistaril as well as Ritalin for ADHD. Fortunately, I never took to the Ritalin as I have suffered with High Blood Pressure since my early 20s and stopped the Prozac cause it just plain didn’t work, but I was wed to the Darvon and Visatril( Hydroxzine – a safe antihistamine type med to aid anxiety/sleep). I had some major injuries in the 2006-2008 that moved me to stronger opiates as Darvon was also eliminated from the market due to heart rate prolapse disorder tied directly to it. From then on, I was on Oxycodone and later Fentanyl as well. It all came crashing down in late 2013 when the side effects of large doses caught up with me. Severe anxiety, anhedonia, and akathesia became a part of my life and I wanted off all of it. After much research, I asked to be put on Suboxone. It wasn’t being used for pain yet in the U.S. then, so I was immediately labeled a ‘drug addict’. I didn’t really care, I knew this was right for me. My pain doctor Rx’d me 32 mg a day!…An insane amount. I left him immediately and dropped that dose to 6 mg daily, then 4 then 2,1, 0.5 then off. All using the one month ’32 mg’ daily he Rx’d me. I had , however, become a rogue patient. I simply didn’t trust pain doctors anymore. I had developed Hyperalgesia as well and while tapering was hard, my primary concern was getting my brain back…out of the fog and the cognitive dysfunction. I used an amino acid supplement guide as well that helped me enormously. While I did effectively get off everything in 10 months, I was never mentally quite right and my pain returned in droves and after another 5 mo’s I was back on Percocet. After 6 months of Percocet and nerve neurotomies for pain control, I left this pain practice as well for Kratom. The neurotomies were not helping and the percocet was giving me cognitive dysfunction and interdose withdrawals…none of which I experienced with Kratom. Kratom was also every bit as effective as the percocet for pain without cognitive issues and nasty side effects.
To try to make this long story shorter, I’ll jump to present day where, now 3 years into my battle to get off opiates, I still have pain and receptor issues that require at minimal, my use of Kratom. Problem with Kratom, especially with us older people with a longer history, it in and of itself, is not easy to get off of. I have tried both Calm Support and Elimidrol and feel it is helpful as a mix of supplements, but don’t expect a huge impact. I have every one of the supplements that those products contain in my toolbox as is, and do use them. The mucana pruriens , L-tyrosine especially was helpful with anhedonia, but I’ve yet to find anything that will repair receptors and end pain. Perhaps, only time can repair these, which we don’t have a lot of.
My suggestion to you, based on my long term struggle is to slowly reduce your methadone with the aid of supplements ( either your own or the combo products, elimidrol or calm support) while getting a good nutritious diet and as much exercise as you are able. Then, make a transition to Suboxone or Subutex, starting no higher than 6mg daily ( preferably 4mg). Slowly ween down to 2mg. As the dose gets lower you will need strips to accurately measure your dose as opposed to pills. When you get to 1 mg or less, you will want to start skipping days. Skipping days, IMO, is the most effective way to get off Subs due to their long half-life. All the while, keep up the supplements. Invest in the book about Opiate cessation using amino acids or continue using the combo products described. I would only recommend Kratom as a last resort and only if you are willing to set a time limit on its use. However, if you have refractory pain/depression/anxiety like me, you may find yourself using it longer. By the end of 2016, it may not even be an available treatment anymore. I’ve already thought about this and feel if Kratom option is eliminated, I may have to go back on Subs. I’m not really sure which of the two is the better choice. Obviously neither, if I am able to function free of any substance, and you probably feel the same way. We probably have a lot in common due to age and history and I know exactly what you’re going through. I hope this helped somewhat, and I wish you all the best.
Fred, thank you for your long story. It shows you care about a brother. Yes sir Im terrified! I started in Heroin in 1968 thinking I could do it and walk away. My first fix hooked
Me. I felt like a human for the first time in my long life of 15 years. Anyhow I’m trying to taper using Kratom as a go between. I’m going to make the king 450 miles R.T. Monthly as I taper down. When I get to around 40mg I will switch to suboxone. I feel Inwill always have to have something because I’ve not known what a clean experience is since mid 1968. I use Patriot Power Greens for a vitamin mineral supplement and it’s very good medicine. No RX but it’s $149.00 for a 5 month supply. I’ve stocked up on what I need to be successful. I know from many experiences that if I use any opiate, especially Heroin I’m a done deal. I hope I’m strong enough. With Methadone I have 14years and 4 months clean off any illegal drug use. No alcohol in 31 years 7 months.
Thanks again and maybe we will meet someday. God speed my friend.
I’ve been on opiates for years. I went last year got put on suboxin and now my insurance doesn’t pay for it. So here I am once again a slave to opiates. I’m so tired of it. Its just so hard to come off of. My question is will meat on in pill form work just as well?
Kratom*
i tried kratom also and it did a great job of gettin me off of oxys almost no wds i would say try it it works
That is great, Kratom also worked for me. What kind did you use?
I used Maig Da Red
Hi Mark,
I just found out about Kratom and your so right, it is amazing. I’m on day 2 of having a 60mg habit of oxy and percs.
A friend introduced me to Superior Red Dragon, I have no opiate withdrawals at all and still have like 20 oxy left in my bottle which I buy off the streets.
My kratom comes in capsule form and I two capsules three times a day.
I love this kratom but cause it helps with all my needs. I have chronic back pain, depression and anxiety. Kratom takes away all these symptoms plus no withdrawals.
Sad part to this story is that as of September 30th 2016 Kratom will be banned and if caught with it you will be charged with a felony.
This is so wrong it is 100% natural plant, but since there not making money off it there taking it away.
I am Going to stock up on it because I don’t ever want to go back to pain medication, which doctors have a problem giving me. I have a broken forcet, spinal stenosis and messed up L4 and L5.
Mark, keep doing what your doing your on the road to a great life.
im having the same success..god led me to it an red strain red bailiff I think as stated above
Hi Darryl, glad Kratom is working for you. I started of with Maeg Da Red. But now I take White Vein Bonero in the morning one level teaspoon it gives me energy and also helps with my depression. Then in the afternoon I take Green Horn Leaf, and towards The evening I take Classic Red Bali, which truly helps with my pain and helps me sleep.
I so Thank God for Kratom, because it helped me stay off of pills, helps with my chronic pain and insomnia. Plus it helps me with my depression and anxiety.
Kratom is amazing , but most important you have to have your mind right that you truly want to be clean and stay off of pills.
I couldn’t agree more. Interesting because I too have psoriatic arthritis and have also been prescribed hydrocodone and oxycodone for several years. When my prescription was out, I would have to find other ways to secure it, spending way too much money and compromising my freedom in the process. But I began using kratom recently – Bali, Red Borneo, etc – and have had ZERO withdrawal symptoms. Simply put: It has SAVED MY LIFE!
Hey Matt I am wondering if there is a remedy that works immediately for somebody if they have already stopped taking the medication and ran out but wants to stay off instead of turn to more?? Does this still work if so is there a better way to order instead of online can I find this in stores? Thanks
Lindsey,
You can find Kratom at some head shops, however it is illegal in some states and other states have pending legislation. If you are in one of the legal states, it is much less expensive than purchasing at a head shop. You will use quite a bit of it, so I really suggest ordering.
Many people have stopped using pain pills with kratom, so it may work for you.
~Mary
OAS Recovery Specialist
Hi Mary,
Does Kratom show up on drug tests?
Thanks
Michelle, Kratom does NOT show on drug tests. I personally prefer to buy either 9oz or 1lb from Top Extracts.
Much cheaper than a head shop and I mix it with grapefruit juice. I use 2 heaping teaspoons 3X a day. I use it for Methadone detox/ taper and it works.
Good luck
Irv did you stop taking Methadone for a few days before starting the Kratom? I am concerned that it might work like suboxone and put me into withdrawal if I take it too soon due to its long half life. Your answer would be very helpful
Kratom will not put you into precipitated withdrawals like Suboxone can. It has a weak affinity for receptors. Suboxone has a very strong affinity. You may not even feel its effects until your methadone taper gets quite low….but it will start filling in the blanks as you wean so to speak.
Hi, Michelle I know this question wasn’t for me and hope you don’t mind me answering.
I been taking Kratom for two months now and just started a new job.
They drug tested me and it did not show up.
Also the information I have on Kratom also says it doesn’t show up on your drug test.
Good luck and keep up the good work.
Hi Michelle,
Actually it depends on the type of drug test. While taking Kratom to get off of extremely high doses of Fentanyl and Oxy I was administered my monthly drug test through my pain management specialist. I was shocked when I was told I was being dismissed from the practice for failing my drug test! Since I’d not taken any other drugs I asked for a copy of my results. All the way down at the very bottom of the many drugs tested for was listed “Kratom” and the “drug” they found in my system and was dismissed from the practice for taking. So it depends on who’s testing you and why, some only run a search on the most commonly abused drugs or some like my Dr ran a test that checked for quite a bit more…including unfortunately Kratom.
(I did continue to use Kratom and was able to wean off of Fentanyl and significantly reduce my Oxy intake with the help of my Primary Care Physician. I started out at 200mcg of Fentanyl changing the patch every 48 hours and 13 30mg of Oxy per day. I now only take 3 20 mg of Oxy per day. I have a severe non surgical spinal injury as result of being hit by a drunk driver)
Hope this helps
I finally ordered Kratom for the first time online. I was buying from a head shop and your right it is very expensive there. I would cost me $25 for 1 ounce and online I got 4 ounces for $37.00 shipping was free.
The Kratom arrived in three days and it was so much better in potency then the head shop.
Not bad Matt. Not bad @ all. I commend your effert and article. I consider myself to be an expert in withdrawal and coming of any opioid. As, I have done so personally with nearly every popular opioid numerous times over a span of 15 years. I too have done it every time without the knowledge of kratom until my last time. I have used methods quite similar to yours with tapering and the use of other substances and nutrition. They work well when followed as directed, but can still be a little difficult for some. The use of kratom is a godsend and a miracle cure for all who struggle with addiction to opiates and breaking the shackles they put you in. Listen to this man..he’s got it right people. I no longer take kratom or any opiate and have broken my shackles with a method quite similar to the one Matt lays out here.
Congrats That is truly a blessing I want so very bad.
Can u please go into more detail im on suboxone and im vegetarian and it just a contradiction doing both i want to be free of suboxone i might as well be addicted to opioids smh. Plz helo
I’m a vegetarian as well and a recovering heroin addict. I share your sentiment of the irony of this juxtiposition. I usex drugs for emotional pain. Im fortunate not to have chronic physical pain. I came off my opiate habit using kratom much like he describes here and it works great. Tapering is a good idea. There are different ways. Instead of eliminating times of use I lessond the amount of each dose a little over time than I started to remove intervals. Tapering should not be painful though. When I got down to 2 mg a day I jumped off and went on kratom. It’s a godsend for opiate withdrawal. Now the task is to stay off which requires a whole other program. But I’m so grateful to be drug free! I can now nurture my spirit, a well as my body.
Joe,
Well written! Congratulations!
~Mary
Can you explain the different strains? I.E.: Red, Red or Green Maen Da, Green, White, etc?
Irv,
Kratom used for opiate withdrawal is usually recommended to be a red strain. Reds are best for pain. Since withdrawal comes with much pain, and pain leads to an increase of other problems like anxiety & stomach issues, many can get enough relief using only red strains. Each company is going to be different tho, so you should find a company that has great reviews. When I used it, I used red maeng da during the day and red borne at night, since maeng da didn’t make me sleepy but borneo did.
White kratom came in handy after the initial acute withdrawal phase was over because it helps many with energy. Green kratom is used by many to fight anxiety.
Here is a link to something called the kratom bible. It gives the information you are looking for. http://kratombible.com
~Mary
OAS RECOVERY SPECIALIST
Mary or Matt, Has anyone smoked Kratom? The powder is similar to hash I had back in 1967.
Thinking
It may be a quick way to stop withdrawing.
Irv,
Smoking Kratom isn’t recommended. The alkaloids in Kratos lose their potency at certain temperature.
Mary, Thank you I figured smoking Kratom want a good idea as it’s never been mentioned. I want to share that my Wife has had no problem coming off 75 Mg Methadone.She was on it for 1 year. She has suffered RLS and Methadone took it away.
It’s come back with a vengeance but it’s better than being a slave to Methadone. I on the other hand am doing horrible. Kratom helps but I think a lifetime of addiction (48 yrs) with several stints on Methadone has done me in. As I’ve said, this time it’s a 15 yr run. I need to find a doctor to help me but with the new found Paranoia and the FDA & DEA coming down on ANY help for addiction doctors are not willing to help. If I had the money I’d move to 🇸🇪 Sweden. At least their a Country of Human Beings.They treat addiction for what it is. No evil egotistical outlooks like the American Gov. Thank you for everything.
Thank you for all your help.
Does the kramton show up on a drug test
No it doesn’t.
I appreciate the answer….I’m trying withdrawal myself I’m not really a chronic user I use 8 MG pill generally last me 4 days and generally just use them to get me through work bc I work 7 12s …but the past 2 months I’ve been going through them like water..and I’m building a tolerance…so I decided it’s time to stop this monster!!!….but I’m nervous just stopping bc I’m on high blood pressure medicine..any advice ??? And this is for bunephorine
My advice would be to STUDY this website. If you see to the right side on sidebar there are blog categories. Go through the natural remedies and medications categories and there is a ton of helpful info that will help you.
How do you stop opiate withdrawals when still taking trammadall