While Suboxone can be a miracle medication for those of us who have suffered from opioid dependence, there comes a time when you must eventually start a Suboxone taper. After enjoying it’s benefits for weeks, months or years, the honeymoon comes to end and reality sets in. Many of us have thought to ourselves, “am I ever going to be able to enjoy life or function normally without subs?” To which our internal voice swiftly replied “no”.
If you can relate to these words, you’re not alone.
Over three million Americans have been prescribed Suboxone for opioid dependence, and I’d bet there are thousands tapering right now as I write these words. I wonder if the numbers would be this high if everyone knew how hard it can be to taper off Suboxone.
The Solution
What if I told you there was a way to complete your Suboxone taper with minimal discomfort that didn’t last very long? While I don’t believe it’s ever easy, there are profound ways of reducing physical and psychological Suboxone tapering symptoms that you can utilize.
I’m a former opiate addict, Suboxone patient and counselor at an Opiate Treatment Program. I like to think I know what I’m talking about when it comes to opiates, medications and alternative treatment modalites. I’m going to teach you the same holistic method I used with my patients who were on a Suboxone taper, which often led to outstanding results.
The 4 Pillars Method
The most effective way to taper off Suboxone is using a balanced approach. Too many times I saw patients try and fail, coming back to treatment beat up and begging for mercy. In the addiction field this is known as “the revolving door”. Sadly, most addicts are in and out of treatment the majority of the time, while rarely stringing together any substantial clean time.
There are many reasons for this. In the case of Suboxone treatment, I’m of the opinion that this is due to treating drug addiction with more drugs, while failing to treat the root cause. I don’t say that because I think poorly of Suboxone. On the contrary, I believe it is an amazing medication that brings much more good than harm.
However, it being the powerful medicine that it is, most patients fail to realize that just having a great Suboxone taper schedule is probably not good enough for long-term success.
While I am going to go over Suboxone taper schedules in detail towards the end, they will be part of a complete Bio/Psycho/Social approach to transitioning off medication. I call this approach “The 4 Pillars Method.”
Subxone Taper: Pillar 1 – Physical
A Suboxone taper can leave your body feeling all sorts of unpleasant symptoms. Even though it’s only a partial opioid agonist, coming off can be challenging nonetheless. Despite your efforts at tapering slow, the nagging and persistent physical symptoms can be enough to make you give up.
As opiate addicts, there is nothing we fear more than the feeling of withdrawal. Even a slight feeling of withdrawal if prolonged over weeks or months can be devastating to our endeavor. When developing a Suboxone taper plan using The 4 Pillars Method, it is essential that you do all that is in your power to address this physical aspect.
The Importance of Exercise
There are so many benefits you get from exercise I could write an entire article about it.
On your Suboxone taper regular exercise can:
- Relieve symptoms of depression and anxiety and improve mood
- Improve sleep
- Produce endorphins
Endorphins are the bodies natural morphine. Morphine is a powerful painkiller. We actually have the ability to produce these neurotransmitters simply by exerting our bodies. The best part about this natural morphine is that it’s free and our bodies make it in the precise amounts that we were designed to handle.
One of my patients would go on long runs a few days per week on his Suboxone taper. He said at 1mg he felt great, and he attributed his sense of physical and mental well-being to the massive amount of endorphins produced from running.
I don’t say this to suggest that everyone should run on their Suboxone taper. I say it merely to provide an example of what one person did who effectively tapered his medication.
Note: You can choose any exercise you like. The key is picking something you enjoy. That way you’re more likely to stick with it.
The Importance of Nutrition
Proper nutrition on a Suboxone taper can translate to:
- More energy
- Better sleep
- Improved mood
Note: Everyone of us is biochemically unique. So I’m not going to be able to tell you exactly which type of diet you should be eating. The best diet to build endorphins for a Suboxone taper is one that is rich with protein, 20-30 grams per day at least 3x per day. I highly recommend reading The Mood Cure
for more detailed information on nutritional therapy for addiction.
No matter what type of diet you choose, always try to follow these guidelines:
- Drink half your body weight in ounces of water daily – More when exercising or if it’s hot outside.
- Chew your food slowly for better nutrient absorption.
- Don’t drink with meals – Wait 30 minutes after eating and 15 minutes before – Drinking with meals dilutes digestive juices.
Note: Becoming health conscious can be a process. Take small steps daily and over time this translates into big changes in health, vitality and enjoyment of life.
Suboxone Taper: Pillar 2 – Psychological
The psychological aspect of a Suboxone taper can be the most difficult to face. Due to the decreasing levels of buprenorphine in your system, your brain is now functioning at a lower capacity than it was at a stabilized dose. Most people certainly notice this drop, and as a result emotions can get out of control.
Some common psychological symptoms of a Suboxone taper include:
- Anxiety
- Restlessness
- Insomnia
- Depression
- Irritability
- Fatigue
- Low self esteem
There are many ways to combat these mental side effects. Exercise actually helps with all of these symptoms. Along with exercise, the following should be considered adding to your holistic Suboxone taper plan:
Supplements
I read a book a few years ago that absolutely blew my mind called End Your Addiction Now: The Proven Nutritional Supplement Program That Can Set You Free
. I urge everyone struggling with addiction to read it as soon as possible. In the book the author, Dr. Charles Gant, states that most opiate abusers are severely deficient in endorphins.
To help balance your brain chemistry, he lists these as the primary nutrients that are usually low in endorphin-deficient individuals:
- DL-Phenylalanine (DLPA) – Up to 2,000 mg, three times daily, one hour before meals.
- L-Leucine – Up to 500 mg, three times daily, one hour before meals.
- L-Methionine – Up to 500 mg, three times daily, one hour before meals.
- L-Glycine – Up to 2,000 mg with each dose of DLPA.
- L-Tyrosine – 2,000 mg, twice per day.
I recommend taking these supplements along with the following opiate withdrawal supplement starting as soon as you feel symptoms from the Suboxone taper:
- Opiate Withdrawal Supplements
- If you can afford it, I also highly recommend taking this awesome supplement, because the benefits are just too good to pass up.
Personal Growth
One of the best ways you can build this psychological pillar is to outgrow your problem. How does one do that, exactly?
- Read self-help books
- Journal on a regular basis
- Work with a counselor, therapist or coach
- Listen to self-improvement CDs in your car
Note: Personal growth is the antidote to addiction. If you harness the power of the strategies above, you’ll be well on your way to completing your Suboxone taper.
Suboxone Taper: Pillar 3 – Emotional
Being able to control your emotional patterns is one the most valuable skills you can acquire in life, regardless of whether you have a drug problem or not. Most people don’t know they have the ability to change their emotions in an instant. This is a skill you should develop before trying to taper Suboxone.
An easy way to change the emotion you’re feeling is to change your focus. If you think about negative things that happened in the past this can cause you to feel bad. If you’re thinking about the future, worrying about what may or may not happen, this can also make you experience unwanted feelings.
While it’s necessary to think about the past and future, most people spend much more time doing this than is necessary. This means they aren’t spending time enjoying the present moment. Practicing present moment awareness can dramatically help your Suboxone taper. Next time you realize that you’re obsessing over the past or worrying about the future, notice that is what’s happening. Bringing your awareness to this is the remedy. By noticing that you’ve drifted into the past or future it brings you back to the present moment.
Note: Try this exercise for an entire day. You’ll see how the mind likes to obsess about things until trained otherwise. It’s one of the most common diseases in the world! To learn more about present moment awareness, I highly recommend reading The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment
.
Suboxone Taper: Pillar 4 – Spiritual
If you’re atheist or agnostic I don’t expect you to follow the guidelines for this pillar. Replace it with something you feel will be useful for your taper. If you believe in some type of Cosmic Intelligence than I recommend you tap into the power of spirituality to supercharge your Suboxone taper.
If you have a solid relationship with God, or whatever you choose to call Him/Her/It, then ask for strength when tapering. Do this on daily basis and do it with sincerity. You might be amazed by the results. If you believe in some kind of Higher Power but don’t pray or communicate with it, give it a try. Ask that it provide you with strength and courage to overcome the physical and psychological Suboxone taper symptoms.
Suboxone Taper Studies
In one large study in 2010, persons tapering with buprenorphine during a nine-month period, whether initially or after a period of substantial improvement, led to nearly universal relapse. Considering how I relapsed after using Suboxone the first time, and also considering how many times I saw patients of mine come in and out of treatment, this doesn’t really surprise me.
In another study, two groups of opioid addicted-youth were evaluated to monitor the effectiveness of different taper approaches. One group was detoxed for two weeks. The other was given Suboxone for nine weeks then tapered for three. The results showed that the longer taper was more effective, although after 6, 9 and 12-month evaluations there were increased rates of opioid use in both groups.
Many other studies look similar to these. The results confirm the poor prognosis. Opioid dependence is, in fact, a chronic, relapsing condition.
Note: The odds are not in your favor. In fact, it’s more like the tale of David versus Goliath. Don’t let this get you down! I’m here to tell you it can be done using the 4- pillars Method coupled with a strategic Suboxone taper schedule.
Suboxone Taper Schedules
To help you achieve your goal of having a successful Suboxone taper, I’ve put together the following guidelines to adhere to until you reach 2 mg:
- Use the least amount of medication possible to feel well enough to get through the day.
- Resist urges to use a little extra when you’re not feeling great – This messes with the taper.
- Try to take it only once every 24 hours.
- Listen to your body and adjust tapering speed as needed.
- Don’t obsess about it.
Tapering is usually not too difficult for most people until somewhere around 2-4 mg. At this point, any decreases are usually noticeable and can be difficult to adjust to.
A conservative Suboxone taper schedule I recommend from 2 mg down is:
- Days 1-14: 2 mg
- Days 15-28: 1.5 mg
- Days 29-42: 1.0 mg
- Days 43-66: 0.5 mg
At this point you start dosing on every other day, rather than daily:
- Day 67: 0.0 mg
- Day 68: 0.5 mg
- Day 69: 0.0 mg
- Day 70: 0.5 mg
- Day 71: 0.0 mg
- Day 72: 0.5 mg
- Day 73: 0.0 mg
- Day 74: 0.5 mg
To finish the Suboxone taper you only dose every third day:
- Days 75-76: 0.0 mg
- Day 77: 0.5 mg
- Day 78-79: 0.0 mg
- Day 80: 0.5 mg – “Final Dose”
Note: If this is too drawn out for you, you can change the frequency of decreases to every 10 or 7 days from 2 mg down to 0.0 mg. I used 14 days as an example of a very conservative taper. Also, it may be necessary to go even lower than 0.5 mg on your taper if you’ve been on Suboxone for a long time. In that case, you could taper your dose down to 0.1 mg or lower.
And Remember…
- This is just a sample of what a Suboxone taper looks like – You might want to change it up to fit your individual needs.
- I broke up the Suboxone dosing to every other day and every third day at the end because this method works wonders.
- If you don’t harness the power of The 4-Pillars along with this Suboxone taper schedule, it won’t be as effective.
Final Thoughts
You have the opportunity to overcome a great obstacle. I sincerely hope with all my heart and soul that you find the powerful resources within you to meet this challenge head-on and prevail. I believe that all our so-called “problems” in life are happening for us, not to us.
By breaking through these walls we grow stronger and are able to contribute more to the world. Do not fear the Suboxone taper. Instead, let it be the catalyst for your breakthrough. Click here now to view my best home detox program.
If you have any questions on tapering off Suboxone, please don’t hesitate to leave it in the comment box below.
I want to talk about a miracle drug that will help defeat detox and keep you with a pleasant feeling while you’re detoxing off of any opioid base drug. Subs, vic, oxy, Fentanyl, ect. Anything, this will be your saving grace below. I swear by it.
Lyrica is expensive and you have to get a PA (prior authorization), but this stuff is the best. You do get a little buzz off of it (not a bad thing), but it rips detox a new ass. You will not feel the effects of detox or you won’t feel them nearly as much. Again, it’s expensive, but if you can get your insurance to pay for it, then you’re good to go. 100mg capsules cost about $7.50 a piece, but if insurance covers it, it goes way down.
The real name of Lyrica is Pregabalin. They will try to give you Gabapentin (Neurontin) at first. It doesn’t work. It’s pretty much useless. You might even have to try it, and then tell them it doesn’t work. Claim kicking legs and try to get the Lyrica. It will completely help/change the way you detox. I hate detox, it’s the worst feeling I’ve ever experienced and I’ve been pretty beat up with the military and all. Detox is worse than any injury I’ve had.
Don’t use it too long, because you can detox off of Lyrica as well. Lyrica can be addictive, and it does have a “mean”, I mean “MEAN” detox. I would say worse than vicoden or subs, but if you only use them for detox, you’ll be fine.
If you’re scared of detox like I am, try this lyrica. It will change your life and will take the sting out of detox off of subs, any Opioid for that matter.
Trust me on this one. This is no BS. It works. You might have to take more than prescribed to feel comfortable, but keep in mind you don’t want to be on it long term. Just for the detox period.
It’s mainly for:
Fibromyalgia
Diabetic Nerve Pain
Spinal Cord Injury Nerve Pain
Pain After Shingles
Partial Onset Seizures in Adults (An Add-On Treatment)
But I use it for kicking legs at night as well as the parkinsons med Ropinirole. (I don’t have parkinsons, it just to help quiet the kicking legs).
Sure is a good medicine for acute symptoms. Wrote an article on how to use it here:
How To Use Lyrica For Opiate Withdrawal>>
That’s awesome. I thought I was the only one who knew about it….lol. I’m so glad folks know about it. Such and incredible tool to use.
That’s great. Here I am thinking I’m the only one who knows about this. Outstanding!!!!
Thanks so much for this information! You have revived my hopes for recovery. Ive been on opiates for 2 years and replaced with Subutex 9 months ago. Im down to 1 mg a day and plan to taper over two weeks with only 6 mg left. My question is:
When should I start taking Elimidrol? (during taper or after final dose)
All other pillars are covered. I exercise and eat healthy. Im a devout catholic with strong emotional support.
My pleasure!! Glad you enjoyed it, and I tell people to start taking it as soon as they start to feel any minor symptoms from tapering, and to keep taking it for the entire taper forward after that point, and then for at least 2-3 months after coming off Suboxone. 🙂
Matt,
I started suboxone after a 10 yr habit of 3-5 Narco 10mg a day. Mainly 3 unless big event or late night work. Found a great dr, started me on 8 mg a day, I say great dr because it is no pressure to curb the habit, no feeling bad, he is a Psychiatrist, says ill be ready when i am ready to come off, he is here for me when i decide and after as well. So I took that for like 8 years, then last year i said fuck this, stopped taking it with 3 saved in case.
Dr prescribed me Klonopin for i guess stress anxiety, and a sleeping pill. they worked great first four – five days. then around day 6-8 here come withdrawals, Which i was pissed off about and amazed i went this long without them, Dr said no one thinks about the half life of Suboxone when coming off of it. i been on it so long, that my half life would last longer. Or simply, my withdrawal delay would last longer. After day 12-14 i was crying for help, call the dr up and said give me more klonopin and sleeping med, a better sleep med, So he upped the klonopin dose and left the sleep med dose same. Highest i could get btw. None worked, i started sleeping for 2 hours restless leg for the remainder of the night- to me that’s the worse ever the leg thing.
So i gave in said i cant fusk this i need to sleep to function at work, not a untrue statement- i was more worried about people seeing me in this shape than anything- i only took 14 Vacation days to get this done. So on day 14 i call and start talking about taper plan- dr told me no problem to taper off, so he prescribed me 2mg strips. I told him i had three 8 mg left over, so he gave me a script for 16 2mg strips for the month to total month supply of Sub. Told me 1mg a day morning and lunch or the entire strip daily.
I opted for 1mg 2x a day. — I took this 1mg and thought i would have a heart attack, it was too much – scared me. I never realized how strong this drug actually is, then i was pissed for taking so much at the start of all this. I was pissed at dr, but eventually that subsided how could he know how much to give me. I am sure he thought i was worse than i was, i know i went in there likely looking like a heroin user. And when you are in withdrawals you want the one person who can make it stop to think you about to die right! So yea i realized it’s my own fault to not be honest, but to my defense i was in no way able to have a honest conversation about my suffering at that time. He gave me a 45 min speech on the addiction and i honestly say i didn’t hear nothing he said, my brain was just counting seconds until i got relief.
So last year i began taking 1mg in morning 1mg after lunch, and i am ready to taper further, Say what you want people, i was not ready to stop, and i think that is the key you need to be ready inside. But i am now ready once again.
Thanks for the plan above for 2mg taper, i been thinking about his but never researched anything yet until today. The one day skip two day skip three day skip i think is going to work out.
I have the exercise ready, mountain bike & its spring, and i’m ready to sweat. My wifes spiritual enough for both of us, lol, but seriously i’m good there. Plus i have a supporting wife and family.
I am more worried about my mind wandering at night when the demons come… Telling me how in the fuck are you going to keep your job, there is no way you can perform as you do now without the meds… What happens when your not the same person and your wife gets to see the real you… If you do not take this med, you will never be able to get anything done at home…Your getting older where will you find your drive once i am gone…
I should mention, i have ADD and Dyslexia as well, Not too bad but my attention span is shit without the adderall. And i have corrected almost every third word i type here due to the Dislexia. Im prescribed 20 mg of the slow release adderall, But i can only stand about 8-10 mg a day of that or i can’t sleep and i don’t take it on weekends. Strictly for work.
What i want to know is- What in your opinion has been the best “get through the night meds”?
last time i was prescribed Klonopins and temazepam to sleep. In full withdrawal both did not work. This is day 12-17. Thanks to recommend.
Committed in SouthWest houston, Tx.
Do NOT take this drug. Look up Lyrica Survivors on FB first. This is a very addictive, dangerous drug, I felt no “buzz” off of it, and took it for only a couple weeks thank God. They don’t even know how this drug works yet-I’ve tried to convince my Dr whose not American, to stop prescribing it. One woman lost all her fingers and toes due to an infection it may have caused. It also ruins your memory!!! Please check out that site before taking this drug.
Actually Lyrica is a horror show. Not worth the pathetic high you’re talking about. I wouldn’t be surprised if this person worked for Lyrica. Before asking your Dr for this drug please check out Lyrica Survivors on FB. Loss of memory that doesn’t come back, complete loss of libido, earlier chances of dementia, and an EVEN LONGER DETOX, which is just as painful – except things don’t get better.
I don’t work for them, and as I stated in my post:
Don’t use it too long, because you can detox off of Lyrica as well. Lyrica can be addictive, and it does have a “mean”, I mean “MEAN” detox. I would say worse than vicoden or subs, but if you only use them for detox, you’ll be fine.
It worked for me.
I’m down to .125 a day. I need to get off for an upcoming surgery. Prostate Cancer, yeah…lol.
I started off on 8mg.
To put it in perspective, I was on say “$8.00” per day. I’m down to 12 cents per day. I need and want to get off, but still scared of the whole withdraw thing. The worst!!! I went through it several times when i was on opioids, and don’t want to experience it ever again.
I think i’m ready to just cut it out completely being down to .125. I cut the 2mg strips into 16 pieces. It’s an acquired skill getting them all even…lol.
I’m thinking I shouldn’t feel too much coming off that amount. I’ve been on subs for two years. Again coming from 8mg to now, which is .125mg.
Any suggestions, or is my fear misplaced at this point?
Starting day 3 today, no ill effects yet. Some restlessness, but I can’t tell if that’s mental or not. I hear day 3 and 4 is the worst. When I was having hydro issues, I remember 2 being bad, but 3 and 4 being pretty terrible (understatement). I’m hoping I can make it through today without having to take even a .06 square (half of a .125mg piece). Man, it would be so cool to be able to do this.
Granted, I have Odansetron for nausea. Ropinirole for restless legs, and Seroquel for sleep.
I have stomach and sleep issues, so I already had those prescribed to me. That could be considered “cheating”, but also could be worth talking to your doc about before trying to detox. I can’t see a doc in the world that wouldn’t prescribe those, or something along those lines to help folks through times like this. I’ll post every few days, so there’s a record for someone else.
Starting Day 4. Amazed. I’ve had some leg kicking, but nothing a bath hasn’t taken care of. I’ve actually been able to sleep. I’ve been patching servers all weekend at night (work), so my sleep schedule has been out of wack anyways. I thought this would be worse than it is by now. Of course, this is just the start of day 4 and I’ve read that it takes a lot longer to leave your system than even the Vicodin does. Keeping my fingers crossed. Little nausea here and there, but that’s kind of normal for me with the whole cancer thing. Fun Fun… I’ll update tomorrow, and today if “stuff” goes south.
Day 5, feeling great. Had some nausea this morning, but I think that’s more the cancer saying hello than the detox. I got my script filled today for my Lyrica, it’s expensive, but it really really helps with any detox effects. You do get a pleasant buzz off of it, but it takes you mind completely away from any detox. Don’t stay on the Lyrica too long, only for detox. Detox from Lyrica is the meanest detox I’ve ever experienced, so be careful not to abuse it. Only use it during detox.
Starting Day 6. Ok, I’m having a little fun with Lyrica, but it’s really helping. I don’t feel any detox on it. Before I got it, I did have some restless legs and lack of energy, but I think I’m going to beat this sub train. Day 6 here I come!!!! 🙂
Morning of day 6, good to go. Little Lyrica hangover, but that’s not a bad thing…lol 😛
Day 6 and I’m feeling great. No detox at all. Life is good. I’ve thrown out all my Suboxone. Life is good!!! Well, except for the prostate cancer. Hm, wonder if the subs had something to with that. I’ve had chronic diarrhea for quite some time. I expected it to get worse when I detox. It’s totally gone. I’m normal now. I can’t believe it. I know it’s gross, but there are many parts of detox, and there’s no dignity in any of them.
Day 7. No Lyrica “stop using it when you think your body is safe from detox, you don’t want to get addicted to Lyrica which can happen. It provides a very nice feeling that should be treated as a treat or tool to get away from detox only”
I feel great. No effect at all. I’ve been on several meetings this morning and I’m doing great. I’ve had chronic diarrhea off and on for the last year. It’s completely gone after quitting suboxone. I’ve had cyclic vomiting syndrome over the past year or two. I’ve not had an episode since getting off of suboxone. I’ve not even had much nausea through the detox days, and that’s when I would expect to be driving the porcelain bus for sure.
I’ve grown to love/hate subs. Yes, they did help to get me off of Vicodin. I know it doesn’t seem like a heavy opioid, but I loved them and abused them, period. Subs help me get away from them and change my life, but I’ve come to believe that didn’t come with out a a price. Cyclic vomiting syndrome, Chronic bathroom issues, and who knows what else. I know I have false teeth up top now at 49. I’m missing many of the rear bottoms. I believe suboxone destroyed them, and last but not least. I didn’t have prostate cancer before I got on suboxone. I know it’s a leap, and it could have just been in waiting subs or no subs, but I can’t help to think that there might have been something in the subs somewhere that promoted it. Who knows, I’m not a doc.
Anyways, Day 7, been doing meetings all morning and haven’t even thought about the fact that I was on Day 7 until I got off the calls. Very cool!!!
It’s the 19th (may 2018). 10 days since I’ve completely gotten off. Riding down to the .125mg level worked for me with. No real feeling of detox (thank the lord). I don’t want it. I don’t feel bad about not having it or sick because I don’t have it. I’m “SO” happy I was able to break away from this stuff. I think I’ll be ok for my surgery (prostate cancer) on the 29th. I’m not going to tell you I’m not scared as hell about the surgery, but at least I’ll be able to feel the meds (only plus in this whole cancer mess). I’ve already told my doctor about my trouble getting off of the pills a few years ago. I was prescribed them a few years (4-5) ago and was on them for a couple of years. It was quite the fight to rid myself of them. I have no intention or want to stay on them any longer than I have to (week at most). Here goes nothing.
Hey there. I had some cancer surgery and had to use pain killers for a few days. I’m off of them with NO DETOX as it was short term use. They were pumping me full of Vicodin and Morphine in the hospital. I was there for 4 days. I told them no more morphine on day two. I was walking without it. I did use it to get up and walk around. Something I know I had to do. I would get up and start walking around the ward just after they shot my IV with the morphine. I had no “I love this stuff urge” during or after they took me off of it. The one thing it did do is bind me up tighter than a drum and I could not even move air, which was painful as hell. Once I denied it, things started moving again. I did use Vics for a week after I got out, but I stopped those….last Wednesday the 6th. I did get some leg kicking and took a .125mg of Suboxone (buprenorphine and naloxone) for a couple days afterwards just to combat any thoughts of feeling of detox. I did get some leg kicking, which drives me crazy, but I’m getting around it with Lyrica and Requip (Parkinson meds, but also for leg kicking). I think the difference this time, using them and getting off, was the fact that I know how dangerous they are now. I know the damage they do. I know and fear the outcome of abusing them. Take heart that you can use them for surgery again, and break away from them. We’re smarter now and we won’t be defeated by a little pill ever again. Cancer surgery was a success for the most part. Now, it’s just a waiting game to see if it grows again. Cancer sucks.
Thanks for all the posts. Glad everything worked out.
I know it has been about to years, but thank you for sharing your story brother! I hope you are doing well today and everyday after this! You did great, an inspiration to me! Thanks again!
I’ve got a question for you. I’ve been taking 32mg of buprenorphine for a while now and I’m sick of the dependence. I just bought the supplements you listed, as well as a red kratom. They don’t have the exact one you wrote about, but the description looked similar. I’m about to start a taper. I’ve started a taper before, but went back to my higher dose because of the bad anxiety or panic feeling that I was getting while lowering my dose.
My question is, can I take the kratom while I’m tapering? Is it dangerous to take both kratom and bupe? I’ve searched the web and can’t find anything specific about taking kratom DURING a bupe taper.
Thanks so much!!
Hi Tracy!
Do NOT take the kratom while tapering. It’s not at all recommended. The best way to use kratom to come off Suboxone is the K-TAT Method. You may want to try it right now or taper your buprenorphine a bit lower before you switch. I wrote a free Ebook that I posted on my blog which I will link to below. It will show you the best way to use kratom to get off Suboxone:
The Kratom Playbook For Opiate Recovery>>
Ok, because when I read your kratom and supplements instructions, it says you recommend tapering over cold-turkey. Then, you have steps starting with day 1. So, I thought you meant day 1 of the taper.
I bought the kratom for when I start feeling withdrawal during the taper. Of course, that wouldn’t be until I’m at a lot lower dose. I know, if someone needs to have surgery while on bupe, they lower their dose just before, so the opiate pain killers can do their job. Wouldn’t it be the same for kratom when I get down to an uncomfortable dose, until my body gets used to it?
Tapering off hydrocodone or oxycodone, or most other opioids with kratom is a lot better. Tapering buprenorphine with kratom works for some people, but many say it makes them feel a bit sick or more.
In response to your last response, thanks for letting me know! That makes sense. Just like, when you first start taking bupe, you need to be in the beginning of withdrawal or else it could throw you into massive withdrawal. It makes sense that the same thing applies when tapering off of it.
I wish I had known about kratom in 2014, when I detoxed off 155mg of methadone in three weeks. My PAWS lasted four agonizing months.
Thanks again!!
You’re welcome, Tracy! It’s an awesome plant and let’s all pray that it remains legal forever!
Hi there;
You seem really nice and I hope you will help me. You seem to really care! I read a lot of these and thought maybe I could answer my own questions but as I’m sure you know, everyone is different and I’d feel better getting a direct opinion if you wouldn’t mind please. I have been taking Suboxone for about a year and a half and I’m probably down to 1.5 mg a day. I have been for a while. I want to get off of them but as I have suffered from withdrawals before like a lot of people, I just really want to minimize that as much as possible and as fast as possible. I don’t want to do the every other day not taking anything plan because it just scares me. I want to figure out how to come off of these with the 10mgs I have left but make it comfortable please and thank you!!
Hi Jamie,
I really do care and I would love to help you. I’m going to post links to two other articles you can read that will really help you figure out the best way to feel better coming off Suboxone. And you don’t have to do the every other day dosing if you don’t want.
Read these they will help!
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion>>
Suboxone Withdrawal Remedies THAT WORK>>
Hi Matt. I started taking 2-3 mg of suboxen 5 days ago to help me come off opiates. I had been taking opiates for a could years. About 30-40 mg a day. I wasn’t aware of how hard it was to stop taking the subs once started. With only taking such a small dose for such a short period of time what is my best option to stop this stuff. I have used kratom in the past and never seemed to gain a dependency on it so if that’s how I can stop these subs with little to no withdrawals I think I would be fine. I just want to be off everything.
Thank you.
Hi Jessica,
Here is an article that I think would help you the most for your situation:
Suboxone Withdrawal Remedies THAT WORK>>
I was on suboxone for 9 years, and scared to death to come off of it. I understand that it can and has saved lives and that’s great. But for me it was just a replacement, a legal form of feeding my addiction in the meantime. I never truly felt good with that looming feeling of being physically dependent on a drug. My personal opinion to anyone considering suboxone maintenance is to think long and hard first. It’s great to use as a detox, but I’d leave it there. And for anyone who has been on it a long time and scared to come off, don’t be. If your on it you’ve probably experienced horrible withdrawal symptoms from more powerful opiates and you’ve gotten through it. I tapered from 10mg a day down to .5mg in 10 days. I didn’t feel good, but it didn’t compare to heroin w/d. After getting completely off I feel much better. Our bodies know how to heal, and fast. We just have to give them a chance to.
Good for you! I’ve tapered down to 1 mg and tried to take nothing yesterday. Usually take at 11am. By midnight restless legs set in. Awful. Third time I have tried. Seems as if the final attempt in removing subs from my body are the toughest? Don’t want to renew script… Have 8 days left at 1 mg. Going to cut to .5. Crazy.
I have been taking 2mg a day for about the last 5 years and between 4-8mg a day for 9 years. I have started to make it through the day by only taking 1mg. But I am the same way as you, when I try to take 1mg every other day the cold chills start during the day and restless legs start at night keeping me from sleeping more than 2-3hrs at a time. Have you been able to get through the every other day taper yet without losing sleep and being miserable? If so, explain how you felt?
Hello, Matt.
I was desperate and about to attend The Coleman Institute for a 3 day rapid detox ($7,400!) when my family doctor suggested Bupe to come off my Oxycontin. So I figured I would give it a shot. She made the case that the three day detox would leave me still in w/d.
I’m only on 30mg day which is a baby dose, but I was 100% narcotic free for years before this The w/ds are far stronger than my many comfort meds will cover. So now we have bupe.
1). The literature says to wait until you have “mild” w/ds before starting bupe. However, the PEOPLE say to wait 24 hours. Could I continue to try to use my non-opioid comfort meds (clonidine, ativan) during that time to make it tolerable, or do I need to be completely clean?
2). Will I have any use for the Oxy during the Bupe process? I’m not sure if we’re tapering or if this is CT. I have been very confused. My pharmacist is going to consult with the doctor to get my med plan just so I don’t make mistakes.
3). Any typical comfort meds that I should never take with bupe?
4). Is it reasonable to come off of bupe less than two weeks after starting? Is that too abrupt? My habit was only nine weeks (post op) and that’s how fast the addiction happened.
5). Can I truly be off it all by Christmas?
6). You are the only one talking to people this way from what I can tell. Thank you.
1) Many people use those meds to make it tolerable and that’s what I would do if it were me.
2) You don’t use Oxy while on buprenorphine.
3) Google “buprenorphine interactions” and you’ll see a big list of the medicines that you don’t want to take on buprenorphine.
4) It is reasonable to come off buprenorphine after only 3 days and also in 2 weeks within starting. You can use the drug for just a few days to reduce the acute withdrawal symptoms, or you can use it for a 1-2 weeks as well, or you can take it long-term. But it’s really easy to get off if you only take it for 3 days. It might be harder to come off after 2 weeks taking it, but still easier than if you did it for several months or years.
5) You can truly be off right now if you want. It’s all a matter of motivation and the ability to delay gratification. Instead of instant gratification, you go through short-term pain to enjoy long-term pleasure from being opioid-free.
6) Thank you!!!
Cannot seem to quit last 1mg dose each day. Side effects are awful. Have 8 days left at 1mg. No way am I renewing script. Cut from 8mg to 4 to 2 with fewer problems. Very disheartening.
Been reading through the questions and answers. You’re amazing Matt. Seems as if you truly give a shit. I am hoping that a good portion of your time is spent on enlightening addicts as well as those striving to kick subs. Seems that as a guest rehab speaker you could reach thousands in a far more positive way than the same old stories.
This is a great website!! Much better information about tapering off suboxone than my prescribing doctor has ever offered. Thank you Matt for taking the time to help others. I wish I looked all this up 10 months ago before I started the 8mg a day routine. After 2 years of taking Oxycodone everyday(7.5mg 3x a day) I jumped up in dosage and within 3 months I was up to 30mg 5x a day. Another 3 months later and I was taking 50mg 6-10x a day which lasted about 4 months. This past January 30 I decided to quit and went to see my GP doctor who put me on 8mg a day of suboxone and 2400mg of gabapentin. On July 1 I knew it was time to get off subs and started my taper. It took me from July 1 to Sept 1 to taper from 8 to 2.75mg then from Sept 1 to Nov. 23 to taper down to .25mg a day which is my current dose. I went a little quick once I hit 2mg and dropped .125mg every 5 days. Around 1.5mg I started feeling some withdrawal(The worst part by far is the anxiety, rapid heart beat, and insomnia which has increased at every lower dose). The past few weeks for nutrition and supplementation everyday I drink 2-3 bone broth protein shakes, take multiple vitamins, and a week ago I started 1000mg Glutamine 3x a day, 1500mg DPA(I heard DLPA can make you jittery which I don’t need), 1000mg Taurine 3xday, 1000mg Glycine 3xday, 325mg Methionine 3xday, 1000mg L Carnitine 2xday, 100mg Phosphatidylserine 3x a day, 100mg 5HTP 3xday, 1000mg NAC 2xday, and at night I take 200mg Theanine, 700mg Passion Flower, and 3mg Melatonin(which usually doesn’t help insomnia. I also got a prescription for Trazadone and Clonidine although I try to only take at night if Im looking at 3 hours of sleep which has become common. On top of all this I found a doctor and have been getting intravenous mixes 3x a week which contain B-vitamins, Magnesium, 45 grams Vitamin C, and Glutathione. Today is day 3 at .25mg which I plan to cut in 2 days to .125mg then 5 days later I was going to start skipping days. Right now I can go almost 18 hours until I feel the rapid heart beat ramp up then I take my daily dose, and time to time I split my dose up in the day. In your opinion, do you think my withdrawal feeling(especially rapidheart beat) will begin to subside as I get into these lower microgram doses and or did I screw myself by going a little quick with the taper? I don’t want to go back up in dose at this point and I really don’t want to feel the withdrawals even worst for another month. Please from your experience let me know your thoughts on my taper plan and what to expect afterwards. Im 36 years old, 6 ft and 185 lbs. I have a fast metabolism so I hope that helps in the end. Thank you for listening. ~Ryan
Hi Ryan,
So glad to hear you’re finding value and benefits in these articles! That’s awesome! And I’m impressed with how you’ve been taking all of those great supplements along with your customized taper protocol. It seems to be working very well for you. As for your question about moving forward, there’s really no way to know for sure what symptoms you will experience.
Typically, as people get lower, their symptoms increase, but you’re taking a lot of high-quality supplements, and gabapentin is my favorite medication for reducing opioid withdrawal symptoms, and you’re already on a very high dosage of that.
Honestly, I think the gabapentin is helping you the most here. That daily dosage is enough to significantly reduce opioid withdrawal symptoms, especially in combination with all of those great nutrients.
So moving forward on your taper, the gabapentin and supplements might assist you to not feel too bad at all. That’s what I’m hoping for. My guess is moving forward on your taper, you’ll either feel the same or a bit worse. I would have to guess that your rapid heartbeat symptoms would get worse on that taper plan, not stay the same or get better.
But this is only speculation. Every person’s body and brain chemistry are different. However, typically withdrawal symptoms get worse the lower you get on Suboxone, especially when tapering from those low amounts down. But don’t worry about it. Even if you have to endure a little discomfort, this will be short-lived. By taking all those nutrients your brain will heal fast after getting off Suboxone. Then you can move on and be done with opioid dependence.
I’m happy to answer any additional questions you may have.
I’ve been on soboxone for 7 years me and my husband tapered for the last 6 months down to less than 1/2 a mg and we are gong on our 3rd week and about to go crazy anybody got any suggestions please help I’m to the point I’m bout to lose my mind
Great web site. I would love to get your opinion on my situation: I had a bone disease and 6 reconstructive hip surgeries about 35 years ago. After high school I started with opiates, then found heroin. I got off the ‘H’ by using methadone and took a “small” dose (35 mg) for twenty years. My doc’ told me in January that “this year, enough is enough. I would need to either switch to suboxone or detox from methadone”. It was difficult and took 11 months but I have been off methadone for four weeks now and have a script for 2 mg of suboxone. I have been trying not to take it but every other day my back/spinal chord and legs get really sore and ache really bad. I also have no energy and have depression. My doctor gave me Wellbutrin for depression. I just started. Anyways, I REALLY don’t want to be on a medicine for the rest of my life so I am trying not to take the suboxone. If I take two 2mg strips the muscle aches disappear and my mood improves. I guess my question is, if I stop taking suboxone completely (it has only been a couple weeks and only every other day) how long will it take me to feel better? I am worried that if I keep taking it when I feel lousy I will end up addicted to it. I also take xanax for sleep which is not great I know. So, how long will the discomfort last? And should I just stop or should I taper as you recommend? I would also like to stress that exercise is probably the greatest medicine, I love to row and swim but I just can’t find the motivation to drive over to the YMCA. I keep hoping that one day soon I will start working out and feeling better. But days turn into weeks which turn into months. Am I hopeless? What do you recommend? Thank you in advance.
Hi John,
Man, I really want you to feel better. That’s a hard situation to be in, but there is hope! I want you to read through two additional articles that will change your life forever.
They will show you how to feel better fast, and how to treat pain without medications. Please, if you have any questions after reading through them let me know. And my guess is if you stopped Suboxone now you’d just be super tired and depressed and maybe have some anxiety and insomnia, but it wouldn’t be a cold-turkey type withdrawal where you’re in horrific terror.
How To Stop Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome From Opiates>>
16 Epic Natural Painkillers To Use Instead Of Opiates>>
Oh and here is another important article in case you decide to stop Suboxone at this point:
Suboxone Withdrawal Remedies THAT WORK>>
Hi. I have been taking Suboxone for almost 6 yrs now. The last 3 yrs I’ve been taking about 1.5 mg a day. I have 2 2mg strips left. I have decided this time I need to stop taking it. My Dr. Passed away so I would have to go somewhere else and it’s not worth the money I have to keep spending. I think it’s a sign that it’s time for me to stop. The last week I’ve been down to 0.5-1mg a day. I exercise daily and have cut all refined sugars out of my diet for a week now. I figured I might as well get rid of all the poison at the same time. Can you give me a safe taper schedule with just 2 2mg strips left please. I can’t miss work and my husband has no idea I take subs. So basically I can’t let anyone know anything is wrong. Thank you!
Hi Barbara, first of all, congrats to you for maintaining such a low dose of Suboxone, for exercising so much, and for cutting out the refined sugars. That’s all AMAZING! I’m proud of you! 🙂
And that certainly does seem like a sign that it’s time to stop. I think nearly six years is plenty of time, and getting off Subs is a wonderful feeling, so I’d love to help out.
Here is a taper protocol that could work well for what you have left (4 mg):
Day 1: 1 mg
Day 2: Nothing
Day 3: 0.5 mg
Day 4: Nothing
Day 5: 0.5 mg
Day 6: Nothing
Day 7: 0.25 mg
Day 8: Nothing
Day 9: 0.25 mg
Day 10: Nothing
Day 11: 0.25
Day 12: Nothing
Day 13: 0.25
Day 14: Nothing
At this point you’ll have used 3 mg of the 4 mg you have left, leaving you with 1 mg of Suboxone.
From this point on, follow this taper protocol:
Day 15: 0.2 mg
Day 16: Nothing
Day 17: 0.2 mg
Day 18: Nothing
Day 19: 0.2 mg
Day 20: Nothing
Day 21: 0.1 mg
Day 22: Nothing
Day 23: 0.1 mg
Day 24: Nothing
Day 25: Nothing
Day 26: 0.1 mg
Day 27: Nothing
Day 28: Nothing
Day 29: Nothing
Day 30: 0.1 mg
Day 31: Opioid-Free
This is a pretty brutal taper because you only have 4 mg left, and you’ve been on Suboxone for so long. I would highly recommend checking out the following article which can assist you to get off Suboxone with the least amount of discomfort:
How To Use Kratom For Opiate Withdrawal>>
How To Mega-Dose Vitamin C To Stop Opiate Withdrawal>>
Opiate Withdrawal Medications: Top 10 Medications THAT WORK>>
Thank you so much for your guidance! Do you think I need Kratom? I purchased Dpla and L-tyrosine today and am planning to buy calm support. I was hoping not to replace it with another drug. But im not really sure what I’m in for. I have no idea how extreme my WD will be.
You’re welcome! And having some kratom on hand could be a lifesaver. I don’t want to sugarcoat it…you’ve been on Subs for ages and this fast taper will likely not be pleasant. I would never use kratom with Subs, however, it could be used as a temporary buffer to use on your first day off Subs.
But here’s the deal, some people like the kratom so much they actually get addicted to it. But in my opinion, taking kratom everyday is MUCH healthier for your body than taking synthetic, manmade opioids that have worse side effects and are harder on your liver.
At least kratom also has antioxidants, anti-cancer effects, immune-modulating properties, and more. You’re probably going to need some real help at reducing your symptoms, so a great way to do this would be to actually just skip the Sub-taper, and jump off as soon as your strips run out, then start using kratom right away.
From this point, you could remain stabilized on a dose of kratom that makes you feel ok, the you could use the same supplements and tapering tactics to go on a 4-8 week kratom taper. That would actually be a lot easier on your body than the taper plan I wrote above, BUT, there is the risk of liking the kratom too much and using it to get high with grapefruit juice.
Anyways, now you have some options and again, you said you “have no idea how extreme your WD will be.” I really can’t ever possibly know for sure, but simply based on how long you’ve been on it, I can almost certainly guarantee it will be rough, that is, unless you take a lot of preventative measures that you’re learning about here on this site. 🙂
Been on 24mg for 6 months. One 8mg strip 3 times a day. My supply ran out. I have 30 left. Is a emergency rapid detox even a realistic option for me?
Hi Tim,
Yes you’re on such a high dose that you have plenty of Suboxone to even create a conservative taper. My guess is that you could taper quickly down to 8 mg, then go a bit slower, but not too slow, down to 4 mg, then slow it down a bit again to get you down to 2 mg.
This should be pretty easy, especially if you exercise a lot, eat healthily, and take the right supplement. If you taper right, you could have plenty of Suboxone left to taper slowly from 2 mg down to a lower jump-off point.
Alternatively, if you don’t want to go through all the hassle of tapering that way, you could always just transition from Suboxone to kratom, then stay on kratom for a few weeks to maybe a month or two, and taper off the kratom, which would be much easier.
Here is an article that will show you how to use kratom for coming off Suboxone or any other opioid:
How To Use Kratom For Opiate Withdrawal>>
17 yrs on sub oxone; Im on 2 to 3 mg /day for last few years. Regarding posts that say a lot of the suboxone need is all in your head. I have to agree. For a couple years I would take more through the day whenever i got stress symptoms.
Being on subs for a long time is actually a trap that we get into; if that isnt enough to make you feel stressed I dont know what could… the point is stress is normal. In my case it would lead to anxiety and even panic syndrome. After seeing Drs, Psychologists, etc I found relief from what I consider existential philosophies of the East, which is at the basis of what Eckhart Tolle teaches i.e. Learning to deal with your emotions is key… emotions can be the strongest drug.
I am no shining example for you all wanting to get off subs, but I have learned to separate my self generated stress from real opiate w/d symptoms and that will help you get down as low as possible with your dosage.
Do you still check this thread? I have some questions and would very much appreciate even a moment of your time. I work in the medical field. I have to remain anonymous and cannot deal physican help or I will most likely lose my job. I have 4 suboxone strips, 12mg each and hope to use them to detox off a 5-7 10mg norco opiate addition a day. I have failed before trying cold turkey or taper using the norco. If you can advise me please if I’m even in the realm of it being possible I would appreciate it.
That is plenty of Suboxone to help you come off the Norco. I’m going to link to an article I wrote that will help you:
How To Use Suboxone For Opiate Withdrawal>>
Hey, I’ve been on subutex for going on 9 months bc I was pregnant. I’m now breast feeding and was wondering if any of these supplements like the calm support or the tulsi tea would effect the baby in any negative way through my breast milk. Thank you. This article really helped me out.
The Calm Support has nutrients that are contraindicated with breast feeding, but the tulsi tea should be fine, though don’t quote me on that because that’s not my area of specialty. I’m glad this article helped you out! Best of luck to you my friend. 🙂
Thank you for this! I was on methadone for five long miserable years. I started a taper from 145mg of methadone down to 28mg then switched to suboxone just three weeks ago. I’m still trying to find my stable dose as I do not feel well. The doc prescribed 16mg per day but I refuse to take so much, I really wanted to stay at 4mg but I found it to be too difficult. I currently am on 8mg, which is better, but not great. Low energy, nasea, and a foggy feeling. I have been clean from all opiates for 5 (almost 6) years and I don’t plan on being on suboxone long. In fact, I want to get off of it soon. I just made the switch so that I could taper off suboxone rather than methadone. Today is dec 16 (I think) and I plan on finding a stable dose and staying there til January 1st then begin my taper. My husband and I desperately want another baby, our son will be 4 this January and I refuse to have another child on methadone. Just wondering if since I have only started suboxone if the process will be as difficult for me as it would be someone whose been on suboxone for years?
Good luck Emily, sincerely, you are at the beginning of another chapter; emphasis on “beginning”.
Although I don’t have experience with Methadone, I would think since you are just beginning Suboxone, yes, it will be easier than for someone who spent more time.
I wish I could go back, over 8 years, but at the time I only wanted to continue with my conventional obligations: family, work, home, etc, without completely losing it all.
I can’t recall exactly but from a creditable forum I learned that it is harder to discontinue with prolonged use.
I agree that 8 is plenty for now, and your target date for tapering sounds great. Sooner the better imo.
I’ve found that 2 is enough to be just on the line of functional, but that is where I have repeatedly been stuck after quite a few attempts.
My Dr. says that some will stay on it forever and that is fine (in his opinion of course) as they may need that type of chemistry for their brain, or some such. I don’t believe it; there are too many drawbacks, although 2mg seems to have a minimal amount of side effects.
Looking forward to hearing of your progress.
Hi Matt, I got myself into a situation, and I’m not sure the best way to get out. Basically I was on suboxone for 4 years, I got off completely about 6 months ago (went through horrible withdrawal for a month, and I did everything right including slow taper and all the right natural supplements, I even did IV nutrient infusions)… After that month of hell, I started feeling okay again, but still very hard to find energy and motivation… anyway… last month I found myself craving opiates like crazy, for the main purpose of them helping me be productive due to the fact that they give me energy and the ability to focus… and long story short I got my hands on some Percocet, and even started snorting some Roxies. But only for 1 week. I decided after a week that I’d take some leftover suboxone just for 5-7 days and end it there. The problem is.. I didn’t just take the sub for a few days. I found myself feeling even more productive, than I have in a very long time on the sub. So now 3 weeks later, I’m still taking suboxone. But I know where this will end up if I continue any longer, Its great now, but I know the energy effect will go away and my health will go downhill again and I do not want to trap myself in what will eventually end up as suboxone-hell all over again. Good news is, I’ve only been taking about .. .25, .5, or .75 mg of a strip a day. (It’s been random). The day before yesterday I only took .25, and I didn’t take anything yesterday, but I deff feel withdrawal, both last night and this morning (even after only using such small doses for only 3 weeks!) it’s crazy. I haven’t taken anything yesterday and I haven’t taken anything yet today but I’m debating on whether I should to stabilize, and then skip tomorrow again. It sucks because I have so much I need to get done and feeling the way I’m feeling right now makes it impossible. What would be the best taper plan be for me? Or should I just continue to not take any from here on?
Niki,
I could have written your story! I went through this on suboxone. From experience with it, I knew that at first it did make me feel good, even more productive and plenty of energy but then the cloud darkened and my moods were flat, I had no energy, no willpower and no motivation. I felt stuck on suboxone; afraid of the impending doom called withdrawal. This is not a good feeling.
I assume that you are taking one or more of the supplements that improve dopamine production {l-tyrosine, l-phenylalanine, dlpa, l-dopa, mucuna pruriens} and the cofactor nutrients {vit c, vit b6 & b12, magnesium, zinc, selenium, potassium and iodine} that help these amino acids produce dopamine and aid the adrenal gland. If you aren’t then you may want to consider some of these.
You really need to stabilize on a dose, instead of hopping around in doses. You have to get your brain function to stabilize on one dose. I think that when you are able to do this, along with getting healthier, eating healthier, and using a combination of supplements, you’ll find it easier to drop doses each time. Get on one dose and stay there at least a week once you’ve stabilized there. Then drop each dose, but realize that there is going to be an adjustment period until you also stabilize there. Some can jump off comfortably at .5mgs , some at .25mgs, but some have to taper even lower. I think that we have to quit expecting to feel totally fine and understand that there may be some discomfort. But thats ok, right? We are Recovering Addicts which means WE ARE STRONG, so whats a little discomfort?
~Mary
OAS RECOVERY SPECIALIST
*Disclaimer- Discuss with your Dr before taking any medications or supplements, changes in diet or creating an exercise regime.
Niki,
I forgot a very important supplement to use along with the ones that aid dopamine production-NAC (n-acetylcysteine). This aids in the facilitation of dopamine; allowing it to better distribute where it’s needed.
~Mary
OAS RECOVERY SPECIALIST
I felt the shift in mood with the alternate brand..white or orange ?????Is this just me?
Well described I’ve been looking for a forum a circle an fairplaying field nonbiasist direct talk somewhere that relates or understands prayers welcome
I am on 24 mg suboxone a day. 8mg 3x’s a day. Was told by my probation I have to be weaned off of it or I’ll go to jail. They’ve never in 4n a half yes tested for it. Someone got caught with some I guess n now they ordered buprenorphine tests. So I went to my Dr n she said I have to wean myself off but will give me instructions how. Her instructions are obsured!! Said to take 2 8mg a day for five days, then 1 a day for five days, then 1 every other day for a week, then 1 every two to four days for a week then stop. To me, that’s still too high of a dose to just stop on n I am terrified of withdrawals. I get suicidal n will end up back in a mental hospital n can’t afford to do that being in this drug program for probation. They’ll lock me up. They said being on suboxone is just like being on pain pills. So I gotta come off them. We’ll, get weaned off them. So Ive been searching the internet n found different tapering methods. I just need to know how to taper off 24mg a day. I don’t have months to do it. I have maybe a couple of months but that’s it. N I have no way to order calm support n would really love to cuz I cannot take withdrawals. So any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, jessica
I am completely fed up with this addiction. I am down to less than 4 mils a day. It’s tiring and the fear of withdrawal I think is worse than the actual withdrawal. i am so ready to be off of Suboxin. It’s like the Dr’s are trying to keep you on the crap. I have been on for almost 2 years. Why would a Dr keep you on for this long. Of course my Dr doesn’t accept private insurance and only takes cash. He is like a drug dealer. I quit going 2 months ago I lost my job and couldn’t afford it. It has been battle ever since. I have tried more times than I can count to quit. I month or so ago I tried cold turkey and lasted 4 days. By the middle of day 4 I was ready to do dope. I have never done that. I am getting 16 mils tomorrow from a friend and that is what I am going off with. I am thinking 2 mils for 2 days 1 mill for 4 and a half for 4 days. I will get the vitamins recommended and hang the heavy bag back up. Wish me luck and hope to see you on the other side.
Adam,
2mgs is still a high dose of suboxone to stop. I want you to know this because if you were tempted to do dope before, I’m afraid the temptation may still be there at 2mgs. You can try using kratom to help combat withdrawal, but it can also can lead to dependence.
~Mary
OAS RECOVERY SPECIALIST
Adam,
I also want to give you a link that helps outline a good taper plan. helpmegetoffdrugs.com/taper
~Mary
OAS RECOVERY SPECIALIST
I started my taper may 2 from 8mg a day to .25 every other day. I’m on my second day of skipping. I know this is kind of fast but it was not really a problem for me until I got to .5 mg. .25 every other day is hard for me. May not be for some but I’m struggling. I made it 24 hours between doses and so far today I’ve made it 32. I’m looking at everything in minutes and hours at this point. Honestly without my sister I wouldn’t have made it this far and I know that’s the truth. She’s my rock, strength and guidance right now. I am dedicated to seeing this through, to coming through this experience a better person that can help others but I’ve learned so far that, for me, it’s 90% mental. The Power of Now is an awesome book and I highly recommend it to anyone that plans this path but I urge you to read it before. It will better prepare you to control the negativity. Six days left on this taper. I’ll let you know what it’s like on the other side of it.
Ihat should do ask if u can come in to the clinic the following month and get as needed dosing as long as you are in treatment incl psych and wellness..and test out clean…
I’ve been on suboxone for 3 years. 8mg a day. I had a friend that got them and didn’t use them. The rest is history. I quit before and came back. Revolving door, poor emotional control and all that jazz. I’ve been tapering off for two weeks. I know it’s fast but no choice really. I’m at that point where it’s either come clean or give up. I hate, truly detest being an addiction and that’s what I am. My schedule allows me four days of work and four days off so what I did was I went from 8mg to cold turkey for 5 days then started back at a 4mg every 2r hours for one week. Then cold turkey again for 2 days and dropped to 2mg for one week. Now I’m at that point where I can’t decide to jump to 1mg or just quit. The problem I have, that most people have is that we have jobs and lives. I have a son and a very demanding but very well paying job. I have to be available for both. Can I taper and still have a life? I manage 30 people and must be able to be professional and present. So here’s what I’m going to try. I will try so hard to use these pillars and exercise but I’m going to quit at 2mg. I am sooooo tired of being cold. I’m always cold now and I hate it. I can’t ask a doctor for help for fear of losing my position so I’m on my own. I try not to be afraid but I’ve done this before and I’m terrified honestly. Afraid of how long it will last and of not being successful. Wish me luck I guess??
I understand where you are coming from. I’m in the same field. I just pay cash for the Dr visit and cash for the medicine.
I have tapered to .50 before and was without for 3 days before I saw the Dr. The insomia kicked in day 2 with RLS. It was awful. The only reason it was was I was taking 1.5 to 2mg the week before. You want to taper as low as possible. The 4 pillars help as well. Make sure you stock up on foods and vitamins with Imodium for those days. Find a friend to talk with. I’ll be here of you want to talk since we’re going through the same thing. I’m @ work now so I’ll be back on here soon!
I’m so lucky to have the support of my sister. She’s been helping me with the tapering and support. I’m down to .5 mg a day and in 6 days I will be doing .25 mg every other day. I debated to taper that low but I want to minimize the end withdrawals as much as possible. You’re right about the food and friend. Tapering is hard and doing it alone would be a nightmare. My energy level is alot higher than I thought it would be but the psychological issues are sometimes the hardest battle. Please keep me posted on how you are doing. I know we can both do this. I’m off to 12 hours of work. It’s my first night of work on .5 mg. Thank you for replying.
I apologise for my slow response. I was super busy this past week.
How are you? I’m still the same. I’m at work again. I will Definately get back with you today on lunch. I’m eating better with a banana a day. Lots of water too!
I need to start eating bananas. I’m doing ok. Been doing a lot of hiking. Tomorrow I start .25 mg every other day. Staying positive!
I am about 8 weeks pregnant, i have went from 1.5 MG to less then .05 in the last 12 days since finding out I am pregnant (was already trying to get off). I am obviously feeling the effects, but only at night! I am having horrible night sweats! That about the ONLY part that is unbearable at this point, along with the lack of sleep. My question is what supplements or vitamins can I take (being pregnant) to help ease the sweats and sleeplessness? I WILL be off within a week, come hell or high water b/c it is so much more important now with a life inside me.. please help! And preferably something I can find locally at Walmart or GNC as I need to get it ASAP lol Thank you <3
Hello, I am just starting to taper off subs, I’m taking 1, 8 mg strip daily, can anyone help me with a taper from that to the 2 mg this taper suggests starting with? Thanks for any help you have and for a whole site dedicated to helping us. There are a lot of ppl who feel nothing except disdain and disgust for addicts, it’s is reassuring to have ppl who genuinely want to help us. Thanks!
Sorry didn’t mean to high jack your post, if I did and I’m only asking for help. I have been on Suboxone twice first time 16 Mg’s for 9 month and quit cold turkey at 21 and thought Suboxone didn’t have withdrawals whatsoever so I never really felt them at all. Never worried about them coming, etc. piece of cake!! Second time on subs was for around 5 years. First three years was on 24 Mg’s way too much!!
Now a great new doctor dropped me from 24 to 8mg’s in about 9 months, and I had no issues. (He didn’t want to rush me, but would always ask if I wanted to taper quicker)
As of now I am down to 6 Mg’s per day and my doctor tapers me by dropping 1 mg after three months no matter what.
Again he asks me each month if I am ready to reduce my dose but he doesn’t pressure me too much. But had to have a rule set in place bc he doesn’t want anyone on it long term, and to be honest He probably gives me more time to taper off then anyone else. And so I usually always wait the full three months to drop down a mg. (I know I could taper quicker but I’m just in a good place with family and super busy with a great new job, and don’t want any added stressers. Excuses yes, but I am human, and worst of all I’m an addict so yes you will get excuses, lol)
BUT The three main questions/issues I have is (1). Is this too long of a taper? I have to go to 5mg’s/day next month due to his 3 month rule, but will tapering at a decent size dose so slowly and waiting almost a year before I even get down to two mg’s a day be detrimental to my taper or hinder my freedom from Suboxone in any way, or is this just being super cautious and only going to delay the process? I CHOOSE IF I WANT TO WAIT THE FULL THREE MONTHS, DR. JUST ENCOURAGES ME TO DROP DOWN in dosage EACH MONTH. (But at least I know he doesn’t want me on Suboxone forever, like my last Dr.)
Secondly (2). I currently take 2mg’s three times a day (tid)I have tried to take my entire dose at once but I always feel like I need to re-dose later in the evening or afternoon. I have a very fast metabolism (6,2 175lbs) and so is taking my dose at once extremely vital to my success? (I know dosing once a day will help me when I get to lower doses) But do you have any ways that will help the Suboxone last longer, or is this just simply in my mind?? Lastly and final question.
(3.) I was on Suboxone when I was around 21 and was on 16mg’s a day for about 9 month and then I just stopped cold turkey due to a hair follicle test that would come up positive for thc and so I just stopped going to that Dr.
BUT I didn’t really have any withdrawals, and I think this was due to the fact that I never knew you got withdrawals from Suboxone, IN FACT I thought it was impossible at the time to withdrawal from subs.. How could you withdrawal from a drug that helps you not withdrawal from full opiates? This was my mindset, and so it was a piece of cake!! (Oh to be 21 and optimistic and carefree again:)
But now that I’ve been on Suboxone for much longer and even though I will be tapering very very slowly and dropping off at .1-.5mg’s compared to 16mg’s, Again when I stopped the subs at 16mg’s I was only 21, I am now 29 same exact body weight but worried it will be so much worse now. (I’m sure I had some wd’s at 21 but just didn’t think twice about them and thought I was just feeling weird for about a week. But if I didn’t really WD, should I expect this to be a breeze or expect much worse?? I know the mind and your attitude play a large part on your taper/WD’s.
Any help I wilI def take and I am so glad I found this site, and anyone who can relate please help me out. Also good luck to everyone working on their addictions, Suboxone may not be perfect but it’s a start to recovery even if the recovery process is 6+ years. I’m still on the road heading in that general direction, my issue is that I only wanna go about 30mph on a 50 mph speed limit.
Matt seems like he really knows what he is talking about with first hand experience and hopefully he can be of assistance!!
PLZ HELP GUYS!!
Also (sorry to go on and on) I am prescribed kolonopin 2mg’s 2 x a day. For the last 6 years I have never once abused my klonopin and i maybe will take one a day if needed. 30 script lasts me about 45-50 days. Should I take 2mg’s 2xday when I get below 2 Mg’s and then stay with that dose of klonopin unti I am done with Suboxone? Or is that a bad idea and should I try and get off the klonopin now before the tapering becomes more difficult? Again I do not abuse these at all. That’s why my other Doctor writes them for me. BUT BOTH DOCS KNOW WHAT I AM TAKING.
Just curious
I know I’m like a month later replying to your post, but I wanted to give my personal experience. I was on 8mg’s 3 times a day for 3 years. 24mg’s per day!!! Little did I realize, that was a HUGE amount, and I didn’t need even half of that. I got myself down to only taking the 8mg’s twice a day, and then practically begged my doctor to drop my down to the 2mg strips. I went from 16mg’s per day right to 6mg’s per day with no problems at all. Actually, I felt better! Then I went straight from 6mg’s per day to 3mg’s per day, and again, had no problems at all. I’m now down to 2mg’s per day, and am really struggling to drop my dose further. Not because of withdraw! I haven’t had any withdraw symptoms! I honestly don’t know what the problem is. It’s all in my head. I start thinking and worrying about how it will be when I’m finally off the subs, will I be okay, will I be strong enough to stay away from pills, etc. And of course I’m worried about that final jump and whether or not I’ll have withdraw symptoms. Like most of you, I can’t be sick. I am a single mom of 3, one of which has autism. I have no help at all, so I don’t have time to be sick. But I HAVE to get off these sun’s. I’m so sick of it.
Anyway, my point is, you could probably go from 6mg’s right down to 3mg’s and not feel any withdraw symptoms. I would give it a try. If you have any symptoms, then take a little more, just cut the strip in half or quarters so you aren’t taking the full 6mg’s. For example, take 3mg’s, if you feel I’ll in anyway, then take 1mg and see if that helps. But try to keep it as low as possible. Good luck to you!
Yes!!Yes this too is in my thoughts is this as working your brain requires so much and then most certainly I see this as a safe option
I went from 2 8mg a day then went down to half on my own now currently on 2mg. Slot of it is in your own head. I 8mg last 24hoursv. For me cutting down to a half felt and lasted the same as taking a whole one then from there 2mg I felt did the same thing.msyill felt like I took a half. I’m having trouble thotampering from the 2mg
My name is Kevin. I’ve been fighting opoid dependence with the help of suboxen 8mg for the past 3 years.
Im a firm believer that suboxen is a miracle drug but unfortunately is very much double edged.
I’ve turned my life around during treatment and couldn’t be happier with the direction of my life with one exception.. Suboxen.
I’m currently down to 1mg twice a day and feel stuck. For me the withdrawal symptoms at my current dose feel just as bad as if I were at a much higher dose. I admit and acknowledge the twice daily dosing is 50% of my problem but I can’t seem to get around it.
If I dose only in the morning I can sleep at night-if I dose at night I struggle to function at work the next day.
Additionally my insurance won’t cover the cost of suboxen so I’m forced to buy “as needed” one or two at a time.
I can deal with general withdrawal symptoms i.e. runny nose, sweat, yawning, fatigue etc.. but there’s one symptom I really struggle with and Ive never read or heard anyone else talk about, its this tingeling in my spine. At night its comparable to RLS as it causes terrible insomnia, during the day it’s so distractful I struggle to focus on the simplest of tasks. And so I’m back to doseing twice a day.
I recently found a buprenorphine taper schedule that I’m going to try and hopefully kick the habbit for good.
I strongly believe addiction is genetic and the best defense we have against drug addiction is education. Knowledge is power, if only had I known the extensive dangers is recreational opioid use as a child/teen I would never have even considered using and abusing as a young adult.
Good luck to everyone recovering and thank-you to all the people who devote their time to help us.
Hi my name is Edward,I’m down to 2mgs a day but I’ve split it in 1mg in the morning and 1 at night.is it actually possible to keep going down until I’m off with little discomfort?truthfully I’ve only been on suboxone for 4,5 months and I want off but I can’t afford to be sick and miss a single day of work I’m strong willed please give me any extra advice and truthfully if it is possible.and where do I get elitrimidol and does it help.?thank you and I look forward to hearing from you
I get a positive vibe reading this site, and I was about to add that what so many of us don’t understand is that spiritual and emotional aspects of recovery are super important; in fact we don’t even really know what that means!
Then I saw this page that included suggestion to read The Power of Now… there it is. Did you ever think that all this pain has a higher purpose; to lead you to realizing your true spiritual nature?
I have never seen so much emotional pain and suffering as I have right here with Opiate abuse and getting through withdrawal symptoms. Yet for me I don’t know that I would have found real satisfaction in life if it had not led me to realization.
Also if you are experiencing anxiety disorder and especially panic attacks, look into Panic Away; it taught me how to accept certain feelings that only dissolve by acceptance. In a Panic Away forum someone mentioned the Power of Now which talks about Pain (feelings) and how transforming pain is like alchemy; base metal to gold.
I’ve tried it and it works!
I was on 12 to 16mg suboxone a day for years, I tried tapering down below 2mg a day and felt so many uncomfortable symptoms I just gave up and resigned myself to taking as much as I needed.
When I started getting panic and anxiety I found spiritual / emotional help, and then I realized I didn’t need to take as much suboxone! I was medicating myself for emotions! A huge percentage of what I thought was withdrawals was emotional!
Now I am down to 1 to 2mg a day for the last 6 months; spirituality is my greatest value each day, and I am here to consider going off sub again.
I do feel that under 2mg is physically difficult (strange how emotion and physical are so closely linked, but they are different) and I will refer to this site for assistance.
Thanks Matt for all you do.
Michael
You know what Michael? Your post was just awesome man! I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to add value to this forum, and that book sounds really helpful. I also read a very beneficial book that changed my life, called The Language Of Emotions: What Your Feelings Are Trying To Tell You. Reading a lot of nonfiction books on things like psychology, health, and spirituality was one of the top reasons I was able to stay clean off opiates and finally enjoy my life. I am totally impressed by your personal and spiritual growth, and I wish you the absolute best on your journey Micheal. Take care!
Matt. I need help. Im trying to do the tapering off subs and taking the dpla but i feel spaced out and no appetite when i take the dpla. It does help w the anxieties but i feel like crap. So i go back and take another sub. What can i do to not feel spaced out. Is this normal??. Despirite to get off these subs!!.
I’ve never heard of it making a person spaced out, but people can react differently to supplements. The appetite thing makes sense because it increases adrenaline and noradrenaline which could lead to feelings of not being hungry. DLPA makes me feel totally focused. I’m curious what brand are you using?
Yes!!Yes this too is in my thoughts is this as working your brain requires so much and then most certainly I see this as a safe option
I tried to cold turkey off suboxone last summer at 3 mgs a day and wasn’t successful. I didn’t sleep 3 days and the RLS was horrible. I then started taking it again and am down to 1 mg a day and about to begin finish tapering the rest of the way off. I am scared mostly because of the anxiety I experienced when I tried the last time but I am praying for strength to get off this devil’s drug. I wish I would have just never started it because it would have been easier to get off the pain meds. I started taking them five years ago when my ex husband stabbed me in the back ten times. Please pray for me. Thank you!
I’m at 3mg A day but haven’t taken any In 30 hours and feel ok should I drop to 2mg and still take my dose even tho I’m feeling ok
Hello…I was given ZUBSOLV 5.7/1.4mg sublingual and prescribed to take twice a day 12 hours apart (on them 3 1/2 months now). I have been able to get down to only taking one (5.7/1.4mg) per day and feel as though tapering further won’t be horribly difficult but I was hoping you could share what the equivalent dose of Zubsolv is to the Suboxone you have in the taper schedule? My wife and I are doing this together so having someone in your corner who knows all your secrets definitely helps us along with utilizing the other pillars as frequently as we can…thank you kindly for sharing your knowledge on this devastating epidemic! Lee
Hi I have been fighting addiction for he last 3 years while in between taking breaks from opiates but always used suboxone to help with withdrawal. I went through a 5 day detox and ended up using again for about 5 days but drastically weining off the opiates. I was taking opana 40mg my last does was half of it and then I took a suboxone. My? Is I’ve been taking sub for 3 days now and scooting by on 2mg and today my 3rd day on 1mg. I feel dine and I keep pushing myself exsept for barely sleeping but truwly only thing I’ve noticed. Do you think by day 5 at half a mg of a suboxone I can push through it. I have the mindset all the way and ready to kick this habit for good. I’m nervous cause recently lost my job and health insurance and basically on last sub. I feel like I can do it but always nice to hear someone else’s thoughts. Thanks Gregg
Is there a way to transition from 2 times a day for medication to 1 I take probably less the .25 I want to start skipping days but is it really that bad if I take 2 crumbs a day just getting used to it not feeling too bad
At that low of dose some people find it difficult to skip days. If it were me in that position, the way I would transition to skipping days would be to exercise, take hot baths, and take supplements daily.
Please refer to the following article that I wrote after this one…which is “beefed” up.
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose, or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Excellent. I’m on day 5 of .50 and extremely focused to do this right! Ive been on this horrible rollercoaster of subs for almost 10 years. I realised I used subs to help with depression and energy. Of course before that were the years of vicodins, then before that alcohol. I haven’t drank or taken pain pills in over 10 years but I knew the subs were not my friend. I’m sick of depending on something. I just had my FIRST two dreams EVER in 10 years the last 2 nights! I’m definitely following your taper from .50 on. Thank you!!!
Awesome to hear about your excellent progress Sarah Jean! Your mindset is certainly in the right place, and I know you can do it. Please check out the following article as well:
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion
I swear you sound like you’ve been in my head! I’ve finally decided enough is enough & I really needed to read this. So thank you for sharing!!
Is there something my doctor can prescribe for the horrible “jimmy legs”? I have them throughout the day and night. I take a sleeping pill at night which helps. But what can help during the day when I need to work and function?
Some doctors prescribe benzos such as Xanax or Klonopin for this. Please read the following article dedicated to the symptom you speak of:
How To Stop Restless Legs From Opiate Withdrawal
Be SUPER careful with benzos and sub. This is one of the most common ways people get drug induced respitory failure. Make sure you get both medications from the same Doc or that your benzos doc is extremely familiar with Suboxone. Not saying it doesn’t work for a lot of people but please be extremely careful even with recommended doses.
Hi I’m Matthew Rogers im with foundations in grimsby and on 6mg bupe being reduced to 4mg on 30th July 2015 I’m alittle worried but will fight on l was tramadol 20 50mg tablets daily l was a real mess Louise at john storer nottingham saved my life l started with 8mg bupe Xmas 2014 moved to grimsby with wife and kids and visit the chemist boots every morning super vised visits I’m feeling good I’ve looked at your statement and its a brilliant way to reduce I’m abit worryed that FOUNDATIONS is reduceing me to fast but l will give 4mg a go take care … Matt
Can it be done with just the dlpa and the calm support or are all the other supplements mentioned a must for success?
Hi Jason,
It can most certainly be done well only using CalmSupport and DLPA
. Absolutely. I also encourage you to read my updated article on Suboxone:
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion
Disclaimer: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. This comment is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Ashwaghanda is one of the best herbal supplements out there for withdrawals and the benefits are endless. I was able to go completely off of cymbalta and go from 8mg sub to 4mg without any withdrawals whatsoever. I also take ginger, valerian root, Passion flower, tyrosine and a few others. Ashwaghanda needs to be added in to your recipe! I can’t begun to list how many benefits there are to Ashwaghanda but after reading horror stories and being on/off antidepressants for ten years and to know I stopped cymbalta cold turkey, quit smoking and cut the sub in half all at the same time without any problems is a miracle. It’s the best thing I ever found!
Me and my Wife have been on subs for 6 years . We are at 2mg/ day now . It’s hard when we are doing this at the Same time with 3 children and I do highly physical work in the heat any suggestions ?
Hey Jared,
I encourage you to read the following articles which might benefit you:
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like a Champion
How To Mega-Dose Vitamin C To Stop Opiate Withdrawal
I am so nervous I’m about to start tapering I have taking suboxone for over a year and I am so tired of it running my life. I’m determined as ever but I am also scared!!
Just remember that unless the circumstances that caused you to use have changed you won’t be able to make a change I was taken for 4 8mg strips a day for 5 years (sometimes 3 sometimes more lol) and I’ve been clean for a year now. The way I did it was keep cutting my dose in half until I got down to 8 milligrams then I cut it buy one milligram a week marijuana does wonders for the withdrawal symptoms you can do this good luck
Great input Jeff. Thanks for the valuable comment and tips. Take care.
Haylee, How did you do?
Hello , i’m a 26 years old boy, i was on buprenorphine 2mg per day for about 2years, now i tapered it down to 0.5mg a day and i take it twice aday meaning Every time i take 0.25mg, my problem is that i cannot taper it more down.each time i try to do that the pain and RLS start and makes it not comfortable for me to do it.please help me get off buprenorphine once for all. Thanks
Please read the following article to help you achieve your goal:
How To Taper Off Suboxone Like A Champion
I meant to include a comment on the tapering, again about the individual aspect. Suboxone has an enormous variability in half-life, from 20 to 70 hours with a mean of 37 (wikipedia), and this variability is both from person to person, and even with the same person at different times. Your taper will need to take this into account. The second complication is that if you’re taking suboxone for chronic pain, as I am, you’re going to hurt when you get below the minimum you need for analgesia. Part of the hope is finding another way to deal with pain than this suboxone dependency and its insidious side-effects. Check Matt’s pages on natural pain relief and be ready to try them all.
Very good info Charlie; thanks for sharing. Here is a link to the article on natural pain relief you recommended to readers with pain issues:
16 Epic Natural Painkillers To Use Instead Of Opiates
Matt actually has three separate suboxone withdrawal plans in various places on the website. I merged all three for my attempt, and you might consider doing the same. Unfortunately, things are going poorly for me now in day 6 of withdrawal. Really nothing is helping with the RLS, malaise, and lack of sleep. I went back through the pages and put together a rush order for the 5 amino acids listed above plus Matt’s recommended curcumin supplement, and I’m waiting for the kratom folks to wake up and I’ll order that too. I’m not sharing to discourage, just to point out again that everyone’s biochemistry is different (and I’ve always know that mine is REALLY different — even “paradoxical” at times, according to my rheumatologist). I have a hopeful feeling that the curcumin and kratom might actually be the key to unlocking the insane RLS that won’t let me sleep, or even sit down for very long. I’ll be sure to report, in case someone else has similar difficulties,
Looking forward to seeing how the kratom and curcumin work for you Charlie. What you said about individual biochemistry being different is spot on. I hope these new supplements give you relief! Aside from that, you’re doing great and are dedicated to improving your life and health, so good for you!
I was abusing norco and before I got on the suboxone from the doctor I was taking 4.5 grams of maeng da kratom everyday to help with withdrawl. It absolutely did help with the physical aspects in terms of me being able to sleep and function well at work. The brand name of kratom I used was “green vein” and is available online if you Google it. The psychological cravings were still very much there though.
I am a 52 years old & am down to 1/32 of a suboxone daily have been for months & still having trouble with withdrawal when I try to skip a dose. Any suggestions?
Me too. same age. same problem but ive been there for a couple weeks?. have you succeeded?
Wow, thats 1/4 of a mg. I guess if you take a 2mg suboxone tablet and cut in half its not too hard to divide it, I get only 8mg tabs and its difficult getting them cut without crumbling into various sizes. I am 67 yrs, have been on these for 10 years and the lowest i can get without withdrawal is about 3mg/day. Because I work as a manager of a business I need to have sufficient mental clarity and not to mention dreading the physical symptoms.
I salute you for getting down to 14 mg.
Matt:
This is the best information I have been able to find on the internet so far. I’ve had two extensive neck surgeries with hardware from C3 to T1. I’ve been through every pain physician in my town and finally found one who would detox me off the multitude of medications I became dependent on. I was able to taper down to 1mg (film) once per day rather easily. I control the neck pain and headaches with Motrin. From the 1mg I have been unsuccessful due to withdraw not pain issues. I began your 0.5mg daily taper today and have ordered the supplements. I actually have hope and appreciate your article. My question is, I also take Cymbalta 60mg once per day which was prescribed because of it’s noted ability to help with pain and depression. I still have depression issues and lack of energy with the Cymbalta and I know this will get worse as I taper off the Suboxone. My physician told me under no circumstances should I taper off the Cymbalta until I have been off the Suboxone for at least 3 months. My physician suggested adding another antidepressant and I am hesitant. What do you recommend?
Thank you for your wonderful article and I am incorporating the Pillars, but I still fight the depression daily. Exercise helps but does not take care of the depression completely. I would appreciate any input you might have!
😀
Wow so glad this article gave you some great hope! This taper plan and the 4 pillars have helped a lot of people.
As for your depression, please read the following article on the supplement DL-phenylalanine (DLPA) from WholeHealthChicago.com:
DLPA For Depression And Chronic Pain
Also, this is the most important supplement to take while tapering off Suboxone, so it kills two birds with one stone so to speak.
Please also read my article DLPA that I personally wrote for opiate addiction recovery:
DLPA: A Miracle Supplement For Opiate Addiction Recovery
As for your physician:
1) He is not in control of your body…you are. He can give recommendations, but ultimately you get to decide what to do with your body, not him.
2) He is trained to treat depression with pharmaceuticals, so that’s what he knows.
3 In the first article I link to, you will likely be very excited about the possibility of DLPA improving your depression and pain.
As for the the lack of energy, please read the following article I wrote:
How To Get Your Energy Back After Quitting Opiates
In consideration of whether or not you should go by your doctor’s advice…that’s something I cannot help you with. My suggestion is read the articles I linked to, and read as much on my website as you can.
Everyone has their own unique biochemistry, so there is no possible way I could know what would work best for you, but I can help you along the way, and would love to be part of your support system.
Certainly it seems that the Cymbalta, which is an SNRI medication, isn’t helping. Perhaps natural methods can, and perhaps your doctor could put you on something that might work much better. Do some research, use your gut and intuition, keep in contact with me, and keep a strong mindset.
You are not alone in this. I’m here to help you every step of the way if you so desire. Thanks for giving my article such a wonderful review, and take care.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Thank you for all your help and kind words! I missed seeing your response last time I checked for it. I just ordered the calm support from your website link. I want him to take everything possible to not only help the detox phase but to also potentially repair the damage done from years of abuse. The supplements you listed for endorphin-deficient individuals you’re recommending (DLPA, Leucine, Methionine, Glycine, Tyrosine) can be taken in addition to the Calm Support? Do you have any brands you specifically recommend (so you can get credit for my purchase)?
Hello again Kris,
That’s so great to hear you ordered Calm Support. It’s a wonder-supplement for tapering off Suboxone. As for your question regarding DLPA and the other amino’s…
The DLPA I use is:
Solaray DL-Phenylalanine Free Form Vegetarian Capsules, 500 mg, 60 Count
Make sure to read my article:
DLPA: A Miracle Supplement For Opiate Addiction Recovery
An awesome amino-acid supplement I recommend is:
Country Life Max-amino with b-6 (blend Of 18 Amino Acids), 180-Count
The Calm Support, DLPA and amino blend can all be taken together. All should be taken on an empty stomach to get absorbed the best.
Your loved one is a very lucky individual! I hope you will keep in touch to let me know how the supplements work…and I also can’t stress the importance of nutrition and exercise enough! If all of these are done together, getting off Suboxone doesn’t have to be difficult. If you need further assistance along the way I’m happy to help.
Have a wonderful day Kris 🙂
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Excellent excellent information! Thank you.
One question, do you recommend any supplements as you taper ?
I’m three weeks into the taper and have gone from 16 mg to 4 mg. doing ok just emotionally fragile , I do have anger issues and find myself crying often .
Again thank you for the great info.
Matt
Hey Matt! So sorry to answer your question so late. My blog is only 4.5 months old, so I have only been getting spam comments, therefore I stopped checking them. Now it’s been almost a month and I finally did…..there were several real comments, so I will be checking on a daily basis now. As for supplements on a suboxone taper, as well as your anger issues and crying, this is probably due to your brain chemistry being deficient in endorphins and serotonin, two very important neurotransmitters involved in feeling happy and relaxed. The best supplement to increase your endorphins is DL-phenylalanine. People get good results from taking up to 2,000mg 3x daily an hour before meals. For increasing serotonin on a suboxone taper, 5-htp or L-tryptophan 2-3 times per day on an empty stomach can really help. I encourage you to check out my recent post, 2014 Opiate Withdrawal Remedies Review. Every supplement on this list can help your suboxone taper. Good luck! Any other questions please post them and I will respond within a few days.
Attention: I am a Strategic Intervention Coach, not a doctor, so I can’t give professional advice regarding aspects of the body, only the mind. What I write is for informational use only. It’s not intended to treat, diagnose or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor before changing your diet, trying any new supplements, medications, exercise or opiate tapering programs.
Thank you sooooo much for your help. My son is an addict, now on saboxone and he FINALLY wants to be off of everything! He will be using your plans, and are soooo grateful for you posting them! I have the DLPA for him; are the L-Leucine, L-Glycine, L-Methionine and L-Tyrosine JUST as important to take every IF we also have the Calm Support?
(so we have the Calm Support AND DLPA and passion flower)
I will get the others if they’d really help even more.
Thanks,
Susi
Hey Matt, sorry, as I read down I saw your comment to Kris and see that it is very helpful to what I was asking.
Susi