Several months ago, I made a 24-minute video on the benefits of using tianeptine. In the video, I go into detail about all of the aspects of tianeptine.
Here is what I cover in the tianeptine presentation:
- Tianeptine Overview
- Tianeptine Mechanisms of Action
- Tianeptine for Depression
- Tianeptine for Anxiety
- Tianeptine for Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS)
- Tianeptine for Acute Opiate Withdrawal
- Tianeptine for Post-Acute Opiate Withdrawal
- Tianeptine for Opioid Cravings
- Recreational Use of Tianeptine
- Tianeptine Abuse
- Tianeptine Addiction
- Tianeptine Dependence
- Tianeptine Withdrawal
- My Experiences Using Tianeptine
- Tianeptine Sulfate vs Tianeptine Sodium
Since this is an opiate recovery blog, I targeted the video to help people on opioid drugs, however, you’ll see from the presentation that it can be watched by and extremely valuable to anyone that wants to learn everything there is to know about tianeptine.
I actually tried to transcribe the entire tianeptine video, but it was taking way too long, so I stopped after 8 minutes. After that, I provide bullet points on the tianeptine slides.
I recommend watching the tianeptine video below as that will be the best way to learn about tianeptine since it has all of the info.
The text below the tianeptine video is there for you to browse over and see an overview of tianeptine. I think it’s helpful to have both resources.
Tianeptine Video Transcription
In this video, I’m going to talk to you about a novel treatment approach for opiate withdrawal, post-acute withdrawal, pain relief, anxiety, and depression, called tianeptine sulfate.
So let’s talk a little bit about what this is.
Tianeptine sulfate is actually a prescription medication in most countries, and in America it’s unregulated. Tianeptine is sold on websites legally as a nootropics supplement.
Let’s talk a little about the overview.
I’m going to talk more about what tianeptine is, I’m going to teach you quickly about the pharmacology of tianeptine, I’m going to teach you how it can be used for acute and post-acute opiate withdrawal, how it can be used for pain relief, depression, and anxiety.
We’ll go into the risk/benefit analysis because there are some potential risks of addiction, dependence, withdrawal, overdose and all of that.
Tianeptine Overview
Let’s talk a little about the overview of what tianeptine is. Like I said before, tianeptine is an antidepressant medication in many countries. They prescribe it for depression and for anxiety typically.
However, it’s unregulated in the United States, and it’s sold online as a nootropics supplement.
So nootropics are a genre of supplements that actually boost brain performance. They improve cognition. They’re mood-boosters and cognition-enhancers, so that’s what they sell this as, unregulated, online, in America.
Tianeptine Mechanisms of Action
Let’s talk about the mechanisms of action of tianeptine. First of all, tianeptine is a selective serotonin reuptake enhancer. Not a reuptake inhibitor (like Celexa, Paxil, Zoloft, Prozac). It’s not an inhibitor, it’s an enhancer, so it has a little different mechanism of action, but most researchers believe it can increase serotonin.
Serotonin is an inhibitory neurotransmitter that makes you “emotionally relaxed.” Inhibit means “slows down and relaxes” the brain.
So it makes you emotionally relaxed.
That’s why a lot of people can get past symptoms of depression when they’re feeling more emotionally relaxed.
Tianeptine is a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA), which is a specific class of antidepressant that has specific actions.
Tianeptine has an alteration of the glutamate receptor activity. That’s one of the actions.
It also releases brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). I had just started learning about this recently. When you exercise, you also release BDNF.
What this does, is it actually forces your brain to create new brain cells. I always thought that as soon as you killed your brain cells by taking a bunch of alcohol or drugs or something, that you couldn’t regenerate them.
In fact, you can grow new brain cells, and one of the ways you do that is through BDNF. So tianeptine is a multifaceted medication/nootropic supplement.
It has lots of really cool things and I haven’t even gotten to the main thing that it does.
So it’s an antidepressant, it’s anxiolytic (anti-anxiety), and it’s an analgesic (painkiller).
If it just had those other properties beside being an analgesic, I wouldn’t be as interested in it, and I certainly wouldn’t be trying it out on myself and spending this much time researching it to provide you with this education.
But, along with those other properties, it’s also a full mu- opioid agonist. What that means is when you take hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, etc., those are all full mu- opioid agonists. These are drugs that induce opioid pain relief and euphoria.
When you use tianeptine sulfate at dosages above the therapeutic range, that’s when you get the serious opioid agonist effects.
Buprenorphine, the main ingredient in Suboxone, and the only ingredient in Subutex is only a partial opioid agonist.
Perhaps you’ve heard of kratom.
Kratom is a natural plant that’s in the coffee family that grows in Southeast Asia. Right now it’s still unregulated in the United States, so it’s selling a lot and it’s helping a lot of people, as kratom is a partial opioid agonist.
Tianeptine activates the opioid receptors in the brain, spinal cord, intestines, and other areas of the body to the full potential, and I’m going to actually tell you about the experiment I did on myself including the different effects I got from the different dosages.
Tianeptine – Conditions it’s Effective For
Here are some conditions that tianeptine has been proven effective for:
- Major Depression
- Anxiety
- Panic Disorder
- Depression in Parkinson’s Disease & PTSD
- Irritable Bowel Syndrome
- Pain Syndromes
- Opiate Withdrawal
Tianeptine For Opiate Withdrawal
So let’s talk about opiate withdrawal. Tianeptine is an efficacious mu-opioid agonist (like I spoke of before). Tianeptine binds to the receptors to reduce withdrawal symptoms and cravings.
To develop withdrawal symptoms, that means you first need to develop a dependency to opioids. After you’ve been using opioids for let’s say an average of a couple of months, then all of a sudden, you need a certain concentration of opioids in your blood every single day just to feel normal.
And then, if you taper off opioids too fast, or if you come of opioids cold-turkey, that leads to a net-decrease in blood-opioid concentration, and when that decrease comes down too fast, faster than your body can adjust to the decreases, it induces an opioid withdrawal syndrome. It activates the fight or flight response, and you get extreme fear, anxiety, insomnia, diarrhea, dilated pupils, etc. It’s a horrific experience.
The way that you stop opiate withdrawal obviously is you need to fill up those opioid receptors. A lot of people will do that with the medications Suboxone, Subutex, and methadone. Some people use kratom or tramadol, and tianeptine is just another that kind bind to the receptors and reduces withdrawal symptoms and cravings.
If you take enough it can completely take away withdrawal symptoms, and if you really take enough, tianeptine can actually get you high as a kite, and that was one of my experiences when I experimented with tianeptine.
Here is a recap of tianeptine for opiate withdrawal:
- Efficacious mu-opioid agonist
- Binds to receptors to reduce withdrawal symptoms and cravings
- Highly effective for withdrawal treatment
- Beneficial for Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)
- Reduces anxiety, depression, insomnia, and pain
Tianeptine – Continued…
Okay, this article is already over 1100 words and I’m only at the 8-minute mark (out of 24 minutes) as I transcribe the video. Thus, for the remainder of this article, I’m just going to provide bullet points of the slides from the presentation.
Tianeptine For Pain Relief:
- A novel treatment for pain relief
- Unregulated in the U.S. and easily purchased online
- Highly-effective opioid painkiller
- Tolerance, dependence, and withdrawal syndrome if taken daily for a prolonged period of time
Tianeptine Recreational Use and Addiction:
- Gets you super-high at doses above the therapeutic range
- Some people inject large doses IV
- Can cause overdose and death
- Addiction potential
My Experiences using Tianeptine
- 25 mg – Nice, happy, smooth mood-boost
- 50 mg – Nicer, happier mood-boost
- 400 mg – Felt like maybe 40-60 mg of hydrocodone…only better
- 800 mg – So high that I was seriously nodding out and getting itchy and irritated
Tianeptine Dosages:
- Acute Opiate Withdrawal – 100 mg to 400 mg, 3 times a day
- Post-Acute Withdrawal – 25 mg to 50 mg, 1-2 times a day
- Pain Relief – 25 mg to 100 mg, 1-2 times a day
- Depression – 25 mg, 1-2 times a day
- Anxiety – 25 mg, 1-2 times a day
How To Buy Tianeptine Online:
- Tianeptine sulfate form is longer-lasting than tianeptine sodium form.
Tianeptine Conclusion
I hope you enjoyed learning about tianeptine as much as I enjoyed researching and experimenting with it. If you have any comments or questions on tianeptine, please post them in the comment box below.
I’ve been on all of this stuff alcohol is the worst. I’ve had broke shoulder busted elbow both broke back Alcohol is legal and it is the worst thing for your body at high amounts I finally stopped.
Hi Matt I’m on drug court and am drug tested regularly. I’ve taken some Tia recently and was wondering if it will show up on drug test as either a opioid or something else. Kratom shows up as a opioid so wondering if Tia did the same. How long does it take to clear your system?
I find it very irresponsible for ALL of us ( addicts and human beings) to pass judgement on that young man who was attempting to warn people about the very serious side effects of Tia sodium . I concur with that young man as I myself , a physician and former opiate addict know all too well what he is going through. I have had my dosage as high as 15 grams per day of Tia. I attempted to come off cold turkey and I lost my mind. My colleagues and family were so scared at what they were witnessing that they recommended that I taper the drug slowly over several months so that they could research more about the withdrawals and effects Tia has on the brain. I went for MRI’s Bioenergetic testing , Kidney testing and a stress test. Fortunately for me I had not done much damage as he also mentioned. The end result is that I am still tapering the drug and down to 8 grams per day . I have noticed that the sulfate form is easier to taper from and no euphoria like the sodium. After speaking to MD’s in Germany and Belgium who have treated high dose addiction to TIA the next steps are to get as low as 1 gram per day before attempting another withdrawal ( scheduled for May 2020) . In order to assist with the taper I am doing daily injections of NAD 400-600 mg subcutaneously, weekly Myers cocktail infusions as well as Vitamin C IV drips. During the acute withdrawal I will be doing 1500 grams of IV NAD + along with Wenicom , Raddix Polygale, Royal Jelly, L- Tryptophan ( Chinese Herbs that assist with BDNF ,NDMA, Serotonin and DA repair ) This young man was right to say how he felt. I know Matt is trying to help people and I believe he has but as a former opiate addict himself , I think the compassion and empathy towards a fellow human being should be at the forefront of his messaging. Those that have shamed that young man and those that will ridicule me are not being fair and compassionate to those of us that are trying to regain our lives. I know I was irresponsible and I know that having a past with opiates should have warned me to stay away from everything however we are all a work in progress and only my higher power can judge my intentions and my heart. I hope that those who have a high potential for addiction stay away from Tia in all forms and my best advice is to get NAD + injections or start on a good regime of vitamins, minerals, exercise and nutrient dense foods. NAD + is one of the best withdrawal supports you can get and is now becoming less and less expensive to obtain. I found a company that sells IV , SUB Q direct to your door no script needed and at a very affordable price along with other IV nutrients. Thank you for allowing us to have a space to share our stories and I hope those that are still suffering find the help they deserve. We are all in this together.
Much Love and Gratitude
Great comment. Thanks for posting this here. I love NAD+ Therapy for Withdrawal. It’s awesome. If a person has the $12,000 to $15,000 for the 10-day infusion treatment it’s an awesome way to detox.
Anthony where are you getting the subcutaneous NAD? I haven’t been able to find any that will deliver to my house.
I wish I had read this 5 months ago. I started Tia 5 months ago (sodium). Not sure how many grams I take a day but a 30 gram bag lasts me about 11 days. So maybe about 2-3 grams a day. It does work good and gives me the same feeling I got from the tramodal I was taking for years for my back and depression. After this opiate crisis, I was cut off from getting anymore tramadol. I am constantly searching for another drug to help me the way tramadol did. That’s what started me initially taking Tia. I have been wanting to quit Tianeptine after researching and people saying how hard it is to quit. It’s also very expensive online. I am here to tell you it’s the worst hell I have ever gone through trying to get off it. I have tried twice with no luck. I end up feeling so bad that you start to contemplate suicide to end the awful withdrawal affects so I just start it up again and feel great. It’s complete hell cycle. Please, listen to Anthony and do not start taking this drug. I hate to recommend any drug but when I was cut off cold turkey from tramadol , I took Kratom to help with withdrawals and it worked beautifully. Took a few days to kick in though. It does not work for Tia withdrawal or at least not for me. But again, Kratom is addictive too and you will feel withdrawals from stopping this as well. I am will try tapering off like Anthony mentions above instead of cold turkey. I just do not wish this pain on anyone. I am just here to confirm to you, Anthony is correct. He knows what he is talking about. Hopefully this will save someone from going through what we are to end taking this drug.
My prayers are with everyone who is battling addictions.
Matt, I was hoping to take Tianeptine Sulfate as an antidepressant but I see you don’t recommend taking it everydat, is that right? Isn’t Tianeptine Sulfate what Stablon is?
DO NOT USE TIANEPTINE IN ANY FORM WITHOUT DR. SUPERVISION IF YOU HAVE ADDICTION ISSUES.
This drug is highly addictive with withdrawals worse than heroin. It is banned in Michigan and is on it way to being banned in other states because of the dangers. It is a scheduled drug in other countries. It is called the gas station heroin. People are losing their jobs, their families, their homes, their lives because of this drug. The distributor of this drug MT Brands manifactures this, distributes this, and operates rehab facilities. I know you will be buying this product in powder form off the internet, but that just makes it more available to use at any dose you want. Sorry for the rant. #justiceforjohnathon
I’m pretty sure it’s almost impossible to purchase this stuff nowadays. While many with addiction issues are able to use tianeptine responsibly, many others can’t control themselves. Pretty soon it will be totally impossible to get.
Hahahahahaha! ;p
Matt – I know I’m late to the party, but I just found this page today, and WOW!, thank you so much! First time I’ve NOT seen a blogger/coach all full of themselves who is ALSO intelligent, knowledgeable AND experienced.
I’m dealing with MDD, generalized anxiety, and what’s being called fibromyalgia for now (it started out as CFS). I was on multiple medications to deal with all that, with all the lovely side effects.
Then I found out about kratom and have been using that for going on 6 years at 5 4g doses@day. While I am a staunch supporter of kratom, I’ve had to admit that I’m dependent on it – I can’t miss a dose by any longer than 2 hours.
So, I would like to get free of any need for added substances – that’s why I was looking at tianeptine.
Then I saw your kratom withdrawal link! A gazillion blessings to you! I’ve lived long enough to have learned to ONLY trust the advice of someone who’s “been there, done that”.
I’m looking forward to getting clear and clean…. Thanks TONS for your help with that.
I’m glad you found value in this information! And thanks so much for the warm feedback. The more I learn from other addiction specialists the more I realize just how little I know. I wish you the best on your journey and I’m sure you’ll reach your goals with continued research and action forward. Kratom can be wonderful to quit opioids but it can lead to being stuck on kratom, but you can detox from this too! Your comment made my day as I LOVE seeing people motivated to improve their physical and mental health and quality of life. You rock! 🙂
Tia can cause severe dependency at large doses, but is a life saver when prescribed at the 12.5mg x 3 / day dose. I see the amounts recommended here and read accounts of people taking 10 grams a day and honestly it scares me. The addictive nature of Tia will lead to more calls into poison control and it’s inevitable ban cutting off people who are treatment resistant for depression and anxiety. I’m mainly wondering if this advice could be a net negative for the world (even if it does help some find relief from withdrawals).
Hi Matt can I take tianeptine with subotex it’s without naloxon or no ??
Yes, those 2 are not contraindicated.
No u can’t take sub and tia
Hey Matt been reading your articles and they have been very helpful for me battling my 3, shit could even be 5 yr addiction to opiates after an injury. I have a high stress management job and a young family to care for, and like you said opiates seemed to make me a better all round person ( as we know this is a myth). I have used Lyrica to help with wd ( very cautious with Lyrica as wd from it is pure hell) but it definitely helps along with Valium for additional anxiety when required and usually get to a week and relapse due to mind playing tricks on me( I’m sure you understand). Anyway I’ve bought Tianetpine sulfate and want to use it to help get through wd again, but am concerned it will prolong the process as it acts on the same receptors. Is that the case or if I only use it carefully for Acute at the mg you suggested, have a few days off then use as needed for PAWS should I be all g. I bought Phenibut early last year and thought it was a miracle for my anxiety, but may have used it too often and had absolutely horrible wd from that ( probably as bad as opiates wd if not worse as it was extreme panic). Anyways long story short you’re articles have been a godsend and very helpful, but unfortunately I haven’t been able to afford your program. I’m in Australia and a reply would be sooooo appreciated bro. Keep up the good work.
Hi Steve,
So glad to read that the articles have helped!! And as for your questions:
1. Tianeptine at the high dosages does activate the opioid receptors, so there are many other remedies that are better such as Lyrica or gabapentin for no more than 7-14 days to avoid dependence on them. I like tianeptine sulfate only if someone cannot get one or more of the potent non-opioid remedies.
2. Tianeptine can cause dependence as well, and using it in the high dosages can also be habit-forming because it can feel really, really good, and it’s legal to purchase online.
3. Tianeptine is great for energy, mood, and anxiety when used at the 25-50 mg a day dosage, and to avoid dependence people take it no more than 2-3 days a week.
Tianeptine made my testicles shrink to the size of raisins after 3 months of 100-150mg daily
Oh my!! Thanks for sharing about your experience with this side effect. That is awful.
Hello Matt–You are truly a Godsend and I’m so grateful to have found your site. My question is, should I take Tianeptine and Kratom at same time or do they basically “cancel out” each other? Kratom itself has been wonderful in getting off the Suboxone. But I also ordered the Tianeptine Sulfate to assist with the PAWS.
Thank you,
Cheryl
Awe thanks for the feedback, Cheryl! I would not use them together. Instead, tianeptine would be really helpful to use in small dosages of 25-50 mg a day after getting off the kratom.
Do you recommend 100 mg of Tianeptine for someone detoxing off 45 mg oxycodone per day for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off? Or kratom? I tried phenibut but I had anxiety the day after so that was a no-go. Afraid to try Tianeptine at 100 mg -400 mg per day for my with drawl symptoms of nausea and diarrhea. Mabey try kratom when it gets here. I don’t even have immodium for the diarrhea. Don’t know what to do but I feel like I have to do something!
Dear Matt,
thank you for your website. I was also wondering about tianeptine for kratom withdrawal. Which can be quite severe by itself. As can tian. But would it be helpful? Wouldn’t it be like taking a little bit of kratom? Is there a difference in the way they effect the receptors in the brain? How long could you use tian at 25-50 mg dose, 3 times a day?
Maybe use something like Gabapentin the first 3/4 days and then switch to tiane … It just feels a bit strange detox-ing with something that works in the same way. Or is that a wrong assumption?
thanks for all the advice.
Hi Richards, great questions.
Gabapentin in the amount of 300 mg to 1200 mg 3x a day is almost always enough to prevent kratom withdrawal symptoms. And one only needs to use gabapentin for 4-7 days for acute kratom withdrawal. The tianeptine could be used for the post-acute withdrawal anxiety and depression. For that, 25 mg a day first thing in the morning, 2-4 days a week and no more so as to not become dependent on that. That is exactly what I would do coming off kratom, as the gabapentin is absolutely amazing for acute withdrawal, and tianeptine is very helpful for PAWS.
Dear Matt,
thanks for your response. I don’t have gabapentin but I do have Lyrica. Which more or less does the same thing if I understand well. Different dose … but should work. The scariest part is for me is the insomnia. Does the gabapentin/pregab allow you to sleep? And should I expect being able to do something or is that out of the question the first 3/4 days?
You probably can’t show up for work?
I just started taking Tia 25mg after viewing your video a couple times. Been on norco and roxi and some other stuff for 5-6 years. I can’t get sober and I keep coming back to the stuff. It’s not that I like being high, its just that I can’t get things to ever feel normal. 25mg Tia does nothing for me other than diahreea. I’m thinking that I need to keep ramping up the dose of Tia until it helps with the opiates and narcs. I want to get clean from using, but mostly I just want to feel normal again. Restless legs are really bad, I’m an anxious mess and seriously agitated. I don’t know how to get out. Been reading your blog and watching your videos. Thanks for your honesty and your journey. Just wish that I could make the leap somehow.
Matt, i just ordered Tianeptine, but it was the sodium capsules, not the sulfate. After reading these posts, i am a bit concerned abt the difference. I wanted to try it for the sleep, depression & anxiety help i read abt. I am taking meds that i dn’t want to take for all that anymore. I have a chronic sleep disorder due to a Doctor’s screw up that threw me into a horrendous case of menopause & scrambled my brain. I want off of the meds & want to sleep normal as i have no life like this. I have been using Phenibut for years & it helps on some nites, but as u know, u build a tolerance. On the nites i sleep good, i am hungover the next day. I think i am having serotonin syndrome. I am thankful for the good sleep, but that is not good either. I just hoped that alternating the Phenibut with the Tianeptine would help me not build a tolerance for either & could get off the meds.
Is this something that could work in that way? I do not want to get addicted to these products, but sleeping on these i think is better than on hard core meds. What are your thoughts on this?
Matt,
Thanks for you hard work informing us all. I have been on Hydrocodone for over 10 years now, originally for pain relief after an operation and now, I just use it to get through the day. Or did. I am now 60, no partner, no children and few friends, which actually is a bit on purpose, but that is another story. Anyway, while I can admit I am addicted, or was, I never abused the amount I was given. At the start of my addiction it was only 1 pill a day and now it is up to 1.5 pills or 2 over the course of the day at a dosage of 7.5/325. I have stopped telling myself I am not like other addicts because I don’t take more than 2 pills a day, but since I still get them, through my doctor and have for the past 10 years, I know something has got to give.
I learned about Kratom just last year and found that to be most helpful. Sometimes I overdid it with Kratom, other times it helped, either with or without they hydrocodone. Last year I was going to go to Thailand and when I discovered how illegal it was there, I totally changed my itinerary to avoid Thailand and a friend of mine pointed out the absurdity of my addiction due to the fact that I was putting my drug above all else when considering every day choices in life, which in this case, was a travel itinerary. I had not thought of it like that, but she was absolutely right. That made me really think about my situation.
A few weeks ago, I discovered tianeptine sulphate and took it in addition to my Wellbutrin and Hydrocodone. I have mixed and matched between the Hydro, Tianeptine and Wellbutrin and have discovered that the Tianeptine with the Wellbutrin at a low dosage of about 50 mg a day is exactly what I need to feel normal, get things done, not be depressed, and even feel wise and intelligent, as your gf said about you that time.
I have never used the sodium version of Tianeptine and will not, based on all the things I have read. Yesterday I had a visit with my psychiatrist and told him what I was doing. He had never heard of Tianeptine at all and did not seem the least bit interested in learning if it would have any interaction with my Wellbutrin. That was my whole purpose of telling him. I told him that while Wellbutrin was enough to keep me from being absolutely miserable, the addition of Tianeptine, added some enhanced mood elevation which made me feel normal. A bit high, or happy, but nothing like hydrocodone or karatom. So he said fine. I did not like that he had never heard of it before so I am thinking of changing psychiatrists. He did compliment me on how he has learned that I am a very disciplined user or experimenter of substances and trusts what I say about what I take.
I am on my 3rd day of no hydrocodone and feel no need to take it at all. I have taken 2 and 3 week periods 2 or 3 times during the past few years, off of hydro with no real consequences, but I never seem to be happy or get enough energy to get anything done around the house. So I start using again. However I am finding that tianeptine sulphate does that too, but seemingly in a much healthier way..
I guess I am curious if Tianeptine has any chemical components similar to cocaine. If so, I would probably not want to take it anymore as I do not do well on cocaine and thus have never made it a habit. I may have taken cocaine a few times about 15 to 20 years ago, but that is it.
My main goal is to completely get off of hydrocodone, and eventually off of everything, without having to go to a detox facility. I used to be very active and exercise daily, but that all has stopped for a variety of reason, more to do with my depression than anything else. So with all of that said, I just want to know if using the Tianeptine for a while should help me off of my small hydrocodone habit and if so, what is the best way to taper off of Tianeptine sulfate?
Thanks,
Robert
Hey Robert,
I enjoyed reading about your journey. And I’m so happy to hear the 50 mg of tianeptine sulfate has helped you. It really is a great product and everyone I’ve ever heard from about it loves it. Well, now I remember one guy that emailed me to say he didn’t feel anything on it. But everyone else loved it.
The tianeptine can help you get off hydrocodone, but you’d have to use a bit higher dosages. I would actually recommend something different for you. I would continue using 50 mg a day of tianeptine and crush up the hydrocodone into powder and add it to water to consume so you can microdose it.
That means you can taper off the hydrocodone to a very low amount. I’ve written a detailed taper plan that involves tapering and other tips as well. You can read about it below:
How To Taper Off Opiates Without Withdrawal – The “Art of Tapering”
Hi Matt,
Thank you so much for this information on Tianeptine. I had never heard of it before today but came across it while doing research to help me come off opiates. I was wondering if you knew if it would be ok to use to help reduce withdrawal from opiates whilst also using SNRI antidepressants?
Thanks, Heather
Hi Heather,
You’re welcome! Glad this info was of value to you. Tianeptine along with an SNRI could cause serotonin syndrome. If you only took a little tianeptine (25 mg) it might not have this issue, but the more you use the higher your chances of getting serotonin syndrome unfortunately.
I just ordered some from Nootropic Source since NootropicsDepot is out of stock. My shipment should be arriving tomorrow or the next day. Do you have any experience with this brand’s sulfate powder and if so would you mind comparing dosage, effects, etc.?
No experience with that brand. Dosage should always be the same unless a company has cut corners. Hopefully, it’s good!
Matt,
I want to truly thank you. It took 3 weeks to the day to get through the withdrawl from coming off Subutex. i used Calm Support 7 days prior to starting as recommended and a combination of Tianeptine and continued to use it along with Epsom Salt baths, Imodium AD and a couple other recommended supplements. For anyone who is wondering if your plans work, YES!!
I also signed up for a monthly delivery of Triangle Trio for 6 months and am still taking the Calm Support twice a day.
You just have to research and determine which plan or combination of plans you intend to use and then order the products ahead of time. Then, start!!
I was taking 13 750mg of Vic’s 3 to 4 times per day for 5 years. I then went to a clinic for 2 years and found my dose stable on Subutex to be 26mg. I began tapering last May until I reached 2mg, which I stayed on for 3 weeks prior to starting the detox plans that you shared.
It was a little daunting at first in researching which plan would be best for me but when I decided on that, I started.
I’m only experiencing a mild hot/cold low fever but Tylenol and Aleive are taking care of that. I’m hoping that this is on the back end and will soon be completely gone.
I dreaded the thought of going through withdrawls. Your plans however, did indeed eliminate 90% of the symptoms during the process. I think withdrawl is probably the number one fear for addicts? it was in my case but once I made the commitment to myself, I was determined to see it through to the end.
I am a living testimony to the fact that you can take control of your life again and I would encourage anyone who has signed up for this program to make a choice, pick a plan and start!!
Two days from now will be one week of being through this process and I am so excited that I no longer have to go to the clinic every day spending $580 per month to let that little 2mg pill dissolve under my tongue in order to make it through another day.
I could go on and on about this but hopefully someone who reads this will be encouraged to take back control of their life and START!!
Jeff,
Your story is totally EPIC and SO INSPIRATIONAL!!! I’m so proud of you! Well done, my friend. And thanks for taking the time to leave your success story here so many people can read it and see how you did it. Great tips. Motivational. What an awesome post! Take care, Jeff!!! 🙂
Hi Matt. Thank you for all of the helpful research. I have been following you for a few months. I wanted to get your opinion on using tianeptine sulfate for opioid withdrawal, for 3 days, then switching to kratom for the next 3 days, then either switching back to the tianeptine at half the original dose for another 3 days, then back to kratom for remainder. Maybe that sounds crazy, but for the purposes of not getting dependednt on either substance. I would be very interested in your thoughts. Thank you.
Hi David, I have experience with both kratom and tianeptine. I am an ex-opiate addict and based on personal experience, I believe your plan is logical and should be successful. I know it’s been a few months since you’ve posted, but if you have not tried this plan yet, I would suggest it. Although your degree of tolerance for opiates is a significant factor, I have found tianeptine to be better suited for heavy withdrawals, while kratom is suited for lighter symptoms. This is all subjective though. Take care.
Thank you for the amazing advice. I am so glad that you continue to help all of us to recover just as you did. This Tianeptine Sulfate is perfect for Tramadol withdrawals. When I stopped taking Tramadol, WOWZA…did not see the withdrawals coming! Those BRAINZ ZAPS…SHEESH!! So, I am using this to help with the withdrawals for several weeks. It is a lifesaver!
Is there a way you can tell me when people should start tapering off of Tianeptine and how? (How long to take it for withdrawals and then when to start tapering)
I am Tramadol free for 5 days. Will NEVER take those meds again. I am not saying it is bad meds at all, I am just saying it is not for me. I do know that I feel I strongly that the doctors out there need to know more about Tramadol’s withdrawals and teaching their patients to taper off. Meaning, people should never just stop taking Tramadol.
I look forward to what you suggest about when and how to taper off from Tianeptine. Thanks for all you do for us.
Maybe I should clarify a bit-
I am taking this for Tramadol withdrawals. I started this five days ago. I tapered off Tramadol down to zero five days ago. I get flu like symptoms and brain zaps as a part of the Tramadol Withdrawal symptoms. So, how long should I take Tianeptine…then when should I start tapering off? Thanks! 🙂
Glad you are gaining value from this info! Wonderful 🙂
I’m going to post a link to an article on tapering that will be a perfect plan for tapering off tianeptine. I would recommend being stabilized on it for at least 1-2 weeks after getting off tramadol and other short-acting opioids, and use it for 3-4 weeks after getting off long-acting opioids, then one can start a taper regimen using the steps in the article below:
How To Taper Off Opiates Without Withdrawal: The “Art of Tapering”>>
Your info has been life saving for me. Being in my 50s and having an opioid problem has been very embarrassing for me. I started abusing 6 yrs ago… I know.. Late bloomer… Lol.. Overdosing and ending up in hospital for one of them didn’t stop me from using. Not until I was ready, about 6mos ago. Started reading your articles about 2 yrs ago. And re read often. The ideas and supplements have truly helped me along with reading others comments here. Thank you, Matt…. I am a work in progress…
Wonderful feedback, Sandra! Thanks for posting this and I sincerely appreciate it. Glad the info on this website is helping you so much. 🙂
Hi Matt,
I enjoyed the video/slideshow, very informative. Given my situation, I think tianeptine sulfate will work for me and would like to give it a shot. It sounds like it could be extremely helpful, but the site you link to doesn’t appear to be selling tianeptine sulfate anymore. I found a few stores online that do, but I dont want to get ripped off. Do you have any other recommendations? Please help, I would be very grateful.
I’m so glad you enjoyed it and got some valuable info for your situation. And they still carry tianeptine sulfate, but they are out of stock currently. It happens quite often as it’s so popular. I tried to other online companies and their tianeptine was awful. I would never recommend them.
Nootropics.com is the only nootropics vendor that I’ve really loved the products. There’s a lot of sites that rip you off and have much lower amounts and qualities of what they are supposed to be selling.
HI Matt,
Do you suggest nootropics.com, or nootropicsdepot.com? Nootropics.com’s tianeptine sulfate is three times as expensive…is it much better quality? Which do you suggest?
Thank you.
They are both the same from my self-testing.
please please please look more into tianeptine you recognized how strong it is but from my experience its stronger than any opiate ive ever done i was up to 10 GRAMS a day at the end i had to be hospitilized for a week for withdrawals getting injected morphine/ativan every 2 hours I was only 18-19 and im one year sober but im still recovering the soduim version in my opinion has potential to be one of the strongest opiates i wasnt eating for 12+ hours then taking huge doses and the rush was too good to be true.. it ruined my life for 2 years and im still recovering sorry for spelling and informal fashion im in a rush but please look more into it the only positive is that it seems to be insanely harder to overdose on i was taking 10,000 mgs and experienced 0 actual damage or overdose scares so ya but it was terrible in the sense i wasnt scared to die like i would other opiates thinking i could take to much and never wake up tianeptine seemed so much safer in my eyes that the addiction and tolerance sky rocketed to olympic levels… i never had a previous addiction just was experimenting drugs as a teen and I believed i had found the ultimate savior for my adhd anxiety depression and at one point it seemed like the cure to everything.. it was legal, the fact it was an actual opiate agonist was suppressed took me months later to find out.. i thought it was like phenibut kinda dangerous if abused but safe enough to be legal and used like caffiene but no i stepped into a full blown opiate addiction.. in the first months i would take like 40 loperamide tablets and withdrawals would end immediatly…which kept proving to me it was a plain old opiate almost nothing else it seems… well after a few months i was in such agony of withdrawal the worst living moments of my life that I took TWO HUNDRED FORTY tablets of lope 2mg each and my withdrawals werent even touched just imagine how powerful tianeptine can be i still havent heard of herion addicts able to drink that much without withdrawals gone let alone live to tell… its the devil it ruined my life when i was finally on the right path doing my best to be just a kid trying to overcome adhd without amphetamines and i ended up taking monster doses of in my raw opinion LIQUID HERION nothing short… please please raise awareness this is still getting more and more popular and peoples lives will be destroyed and realistically lost through suicide or overdose thankyou and please just rethink this all and think of the implications you spend your life helping others fight opiate addiction but by suggesting people even thinking of touching tianeptine with a pole you can honestly destroys atleast a handful of lives which i know you spend your life to save others… thankyou i have endless respect for you.
Um, no disrespect intended at all, but I did about as much research on tianeptine as humanly possible. And I gave fair warning as the potential abuse and addiction potential.
Also, you said it’s stronger than any opiate because you used 10 grams? That is 10,000 mg. Oxycodone and hydrocodone are usually prescribed at amounts of around 5 to 10 mg, or more in severe pain cases. The most I have ever seen a person take is around 600 mg a day.
And you’re talking about tianeptine being stronger. If someone took 10 grams of hydrocodone or oxycodone or another opiate, they would be dead. Done. Finished.
Thus, tianeptine is nowhere close as strong, but yes, in the amounts you took it that is very dangerous. I don’t recommend that ever. You chose to use that much. I write about everything that works for opiate withdrawal on this site, and if something has addiction potential, I say it does.
Hundreds of thousands of other people shouldn’t have to suffer and not learn how to use this stuff because you and a very small percentage of people can’t control their use responsibly.
I recommend dozens of different medications and nootropics that have helped countless people. Yet every once in awhile, someone that got addicted to a substance tells me how dare I promote it.
Well, me and countless others have used all of the remedies I write about with responsible use. Thus, others shouldn’t have to pay due to other people’s lack of self-discipline.
It would be like over-eaters saying that companies shouldn’t sell cookies, cake, and brownies, just because they became addicted to them.
One thing I guarantee you, is that the Harm Reduction Model I go by is not perfect, and it’s certainly not for everyone. I don’t teach total abstinence theory, and powerlessness either.
I teach people how to use natural supplements, prescription meds, otc meds, nootropics, natural drugs, and much more to come off opioids from home in the most painless way possible.
Overall, this helps people much more than it harms them. I have had tons of people email to say how they used tianeptine short-term to come off harder opioids with ease, so I know it’s helping a lot of people. Sorry you got addicted to it. Look up Harm Reduction on Google if you don’t know exactly what it means.
This is a Harm Reduction website. There are plenty of abstinence-only blogs out there. Total abstinence is not for everyone. So my website helps tens of thousands of people every month using this method.
I appreciate your concern, but please don’t go spreading rumors that tianeptine is the strongest opioid, as it’s actually very weak. Furthermore, it’s not habit-forming for most people. Only a small percentage of people get addicted. Again, I’m sorry you let your addiction to tianeptine get out of hand, but I have seen many people use it just fine.
Thank you for your feedback, and I absolutely respect your stance on this subject. I just have a different belief. But I do also validate and respect yours completely.
Now that was a very respectful reply. Speaks well of you.
Sorry Matt but the fact that you even bothered to respond to the post that warned about 10,000 mg is purely ludicrous. The post was sherely irresponsible judging by the age and immaturity of the poster. Hardly worth your long retort imo. I for one would prefer more guidance on cycling tianeptine to avoid a slippage in effectiveness. I find 300 mg to be a real sweet spot. Lasts about 5-7 hours start to finish and works beautifully to provide a distracting glow from the depressive thoughts and a real feel good effect that lasts the entire time. My concern is I don’t believe you can do this on a daily or even tri-daily basis as this nootropic will require more to achieve the same effect. I oils like to hear from you or others who have found the right dosage timeline to ensue continued success with this anti depressant that works so well for me. Thanks for the initial research and guidance. Need more feedback if able….
As with pretty much all nootropics, I’ve found that only using them 1-2 days a week is the best way to maintain their benefits. That’s really the best way to get the benefits without losing the strength and building tolerance and even dependence on things like tianeptine sulfate.
Matt by all appearances to me is a mature, empathetic, & well balanced individual.
As evidenced by his total lack of needing to make others wrong to prove that he’s ‘right’.
Though I’m new to this site & his methods in general, I’ve had a shit ton of experience w/ AA, NA, & CA, w/ being counseled & as a counselor (w/ people w/ autism 12 years; methadone counselor 2 yrs. AA sponsor – aggregate of about 15 yrs., etc.) I don’t have to ‘make’ others wrong to be right. I respect you Matt & look forward to you & your approach in conjunction w/ AA. Some folks are going to totally overdo whatever, I’ve been that guy in the past; my addict credo WAS years ago if 1 is good then 7 is mandatory. Matt seems awfully mature for a guy w/ his history who appears maybe mid-30’s w/ 7+ yrs. I’ve known a lot of guys w/ 20-30 yrs. C&S who are still quite immature, insecure & judgemental to others who don’t do recovery their way. I look forward to learning & applting much of what he has to offer !
Well said!!
Hey Matt,
Nice response on that otherwise irresponsible post that complained about over indulgence on a resource that is supposed to help with our core issue, opiate WD. I was able to order Tia without any hassle from Nootropics and I am easing into a regimen with some positive results and experimentation.
I hope to continue my regimen until I have successfully moved to zero opiates.
I will advise on outcome in the weeks ahead. Thanks for being such a solid support vehicle. You are steering people in the right way and it is appreciated
Hi Matt, I’m tapering off Kratom and am wondering if I would have to worry about Tianeptine interfering (prolonging) detox, or if I could strategically use it to reduce symptoms. For example using a single dose of Tianeptine at the 72 hr mark of a newly reduced Kratom dose. Was on tramadol for rls for almost 8 yrs, used kratom now for over 3 and have tried to detox on kratom. Back on the wagon to detox. I would love if you would write an article on kratom detox help. I am part of your program. I’ve not tried all things, but have taken assessment of what helps and left the rest.
Hi Eli,
Nic to hear from you. As for the tianeptine, if you only use 100 mg a day or less, it should assist nicely without messing up your taper. And I actually have an article planned on kratom detox in the future. I already created a Free Kratom Home Detox Video though, and you might enjoy watching that.
Been on opiods for 6 yrs….the mosy I’ve ever taken was 28 10 mg percs….. The shame…guilt…expence follows you around like a black cloud. Finally had started to affect work. Scared for my health and losing my job…I’ve tried tianeptine for the first time today. About 20 min ago. I started taking opiods for depression and a bad marraige…could get high and not care. Till the last couple yrs takes more to work. Don’t want to start hetoin ect…..not going there. Been in rehab once and discovered it was a market place for when you get out. I want to be clean…happy…healthy…hoping to God this tianeptine will quell the desires and give me some much needed energy. Please wish me luck……as do I for you guys.
Hi Matt, I have chronic pain and have for 12 years now I’ve had brain spine, and two neck surgeries. I had a car accident a few years ago that was not my fault but have bone chips and both my ankles now which cause pain as well of course. I’ve been using kratom it works to help with withdrawal but I still have a lot of pain. I’m tired of pain medications so I’ve just been suffering. I don’t want to do Suboxone or any of those other prescription meds that they try to give you. Would this be something that you think may help with withdrawal and with pain, I don’t want to trade one dependency to another. I don’t care about the high one single bit my body doesn’t normally react to medications like normal people I can’t remember even getting high past the first month of taking oxycodone. Methadone didn’t do much for me when they tried me on that for a long-lasting medication with the oxycodone I’ve also been on oxycontin didn’t get high from that did help the pain a little. Morphine doesn’t even help my pain they say I don’t have the receptors that is attaches to and that’s probably why it doesn’t help me. I’m 48 oh, well will be in September. I have no life whatsoever since I’ve taken myself off of Oxycodone I’ve just been miserable even with the Kratom because I still have the pain. What would you suggest that I try what is the best for my situation? Sounds like you’ve tried a lot of things and that you’re very knowledgeable so I respect your opinion. Please get back to me when you have time. I’m at the point where I can’t handle this anymore. Thank you so much for your time. God bless you for all the help you are doing very large, large amount of people. Have a wonderful day. Maya
Hi I’m so sorry to hear you’re been going through a rough time. I’m going to post a link to my Natural Pain Relief section of the website where there are several articles that I believe will be of value to you. Wishing you the best and please let me know if you have any questions after checking out this information.
Natural Pain Relief>>
Hi there, ive been an opiate/ heroin user (I smoke it) for the last 20 years and im almost 50 years old with a great paying job, but u would never know because im broke and dont own a thing…but honestly im really really tired of it all…it would be nice to wake up and not have to run to the dealer just so I can have a normal day and not b sick, this crap has not gotten me high now for years it only keeps the pain away…ive tried everything to stop and yes even the methadone program and without success because I just continued to use…so im ready for anything now cause the rope is getting tighter around my neck and im getting scared that I really might tighten the noose…so im gonna give this one a shot …I really hope it works thx for your help
Best of luck to you Mia! The half life is longer than heroin that’s for sure, so you won’t need to take it so many times a day. When I used to smoke heroin, by the time I finished smoking, then would get dressed and eat breakfast, I would need more. I was doing it every 30-60 minutes and at the most I could only go a few hours without it. What a shitty way to live. Wishing you the best and I know you can do it if you want to change bad enough. Take care.
Matt, I got instanly addicted to tianeptine after one dose. I have taken a pain killer when they were prescribed for dental work and didn’t get “the obsession” to continue but the tianeptine sodium brought it right back. I obsessed over taking it and finally through it out for piece of mind. I’m sure it works for withdrawl, but it’s a slippery slope for me. God Bless for all the help and good information. I have 18 months sub free after 10yrs of perscriptions.
Hi Steve,
I hated the tianeptine sodium because it wore off so fast…even faster than heroin. The tianeptine sulfate comes on much slower and lasts for many hours, making it less addictive than the sodium form. But yes, even the sulfate form can be extremely addictive. Used in the proper way it can be helpful, but for some it might be hard to resist since it can make you feel so amazing.
Thanks for your input Steve. Wishing you the best and congrats on being free from Subs!!! Take care. 🙂
Hey Steve – I’ve been on Suboxone for 10+ years and just now starting to slowly taper. I’ve read a lot of Matt’s stuff but honestly there is so many things to take or try it’s hard to know what’s best. Is there any particular supplement or thing that helped you through it the most? I like to get feedback from those that have experienced being on subs for a while. Im looking into vitamin IV therapy and other supplements.
Hi Damon. I wrote on a calendar my taper schedule and that got me started. I also used NAC w L-tyrosine, a good omega 3 fish oil, a multi B vitamin with a coenzyme for better absorption. DLPA , 5HTP . Agmatine , chelated magnesium and zinc. For my adaptagens I used ashwaganda, pasion flower extract or kava kava. Also melatonin . I really got involved about learning how all these herbs, amino acids and vitamins work, which gave me some mental cofidence while tapering. It kept my mind busy. Its easy to get carried away. After I tapered I used kratom till it no longer felt like it helped. Kratom took away most withdraw l symptoms. I did have some anxiety and still do but it’s acceptable. I used pain pills and subs for 15 yrs. Recently started looking into nootropics to help my brain recover . Good Luck my friend. Its not a nightmare . Knowledge = confidence.
I’ve done the same as Steve, Damon…got informed, & learned most of the info about how to beat my addiction thanks to Matt. Opiate addiction recovery is not an overnight thing. It requires a taper plan, vitamins & minerals, medicinal herbs, self-love, inner strength, & a support system.
Best of luck to you & everyone